1
   

The United States is not a Christian Nation

 
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:25 pm
@Dmizer,
Quote:
"When were you home last?" When I said, "The summer of 1957", they fell silent.

?!!!!
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2007 04:29 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;12176 wrote:
"The intent of the founding fathers was that.........."

I'm sorry, but I don't really care about what they intended. I only care about the triumph of WESTERN CHRISTIAN CULTURE. Amen.


Well????

Bible Party of the United States of America
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2007 08:28 pm
@Dmizer,
You have to forgive me. I'm one complicated animal. As a Christian nationalist, with a Catholic background, I'm very religious, but in the tradition of Christian humanism, as opposed to hardcore Biblicism. Also, I give history almost just as much credence as a spiritual guide and fountain of truth as I do other authorities, such as the Bible and the Pope. In other words, I guess my Christian denomination would be something along the lines of 'CHRISTIAN WARRIOR'. The Bible alone cannot serve as the bonding agent of our utopian society, because of the degree to which it can be so wildly and even insanely interpretted. I've met more than a few Bible freaks who had reached the most utterly absurd conclusions imaginable about Christianity, Man and life in general, as a result of their nutty interpretations, or those of some dangerously ignorant, fly-by-night 'preacher' whose spell they'd fallen under down here in the Bible Belt of South Texas. Scary.
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 07:51 am
@Drnaline,
Quote:
'CHRISTIAN WARRIOR'


" Onward Christian Soldiers - marching off to war . "
Dmizer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 08:29 am
@Dmizer,
"I'm sorry, but I don't really care about what they intended. I only care about the triumph of WESTERN CHRISTIAN CULTURE. Amen."

You and the KKK should get along just fine. That what they preach also.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 09:33 am
@Dmizer,
Pino and the KKK call the same brand of religion they use Christianity, that is where the similarity ends. If it weren't for WESTERN CHRISTIAN CULTURE you would probably be speaking Arabic and wearing a turban.
On the note of Christian Nation, i just watched a show on the History channel in which, Jefferson dealing with Barbary pirates demanding tribute for the return of three hundred plus sailors, authorized the attempt to over through of a sovereign nation. By allowing a self appointed General Eaton to aid a deposed brother regain his thrown. Jefferson was a pretty rightious guy huh? How do you think Jefferson and the KKK would get along? Think the KKK would attempt to over through a soveriegn nation?
0 Replies
 
Dmizer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 01:17 pm
@Dmizer,
Overthrow a soveriegn nation? Like Iraq? If you are taking into account the fact that the soveriegn nation has attacked your ships and violated peace treaty's and resolutions, then yes overthrow it.
You paint a picture of the Barbary states as an innocent. They were guilty of seizing many ships and enslaving many more American sailors, illegally, then just the 300 he was attempting to free. It was an issue that had been occuring for many years. The United States was paying tribute(extortion) to the Barbary states (to the tune of millions of dollars, a large part of our governments finances) in order to have them stop seizing our property and sailors. Jefferson put a stop to that tribute and faced off with the Pirate states, something the former administration was afraid to pursue. Jefferson put to task the US Marine Corps to take the city of Tripoli and force concessions with the Barbary states. So in protecting the US and its interests Thomas Jefferson acted as any decent President would have. You paint a picture with half truths and deceit. Perhaps you sould have watched the whole show, or perhaps looked up the history of it yourself. You haven't turned liberal have ya? Cause your last post sounded like a liberal. You criticize the US Marines glorious victory at Tripoli and chastize a US President for protecting his country. Righteous indeed!

P.S. I suppose you are in favor of pulling out of Iraq since it was a soveriegn nation that we overthrew?
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 01:56 pm
@Dmizer,
Quote:
Yo Dmizer, how many islamic, jewish, hindu, or catholic colonists were there in the first thirteen colonies?


There were actually a good number of Jews in areas such as New York. That was a big reason they included freedom of religion in the first amendment.

There was also a smattering of French, German, or previously persecuted Catholics.
Dmizer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 02:52 pm
@Dmizer,
Reagaknight,
You are right on the money. I am getting tired of giving history lessons to those who are less informed about their own country's history. As a matter of fact the American Revolution would have never gotten off the ground financially, without the jewish population in the colonies. Here is a link of one of the more prominent examples of the Jewish patriots that often go overlooked.

The American Revolution: Haym Salomon
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 04:38 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;12231 wrote:
There were actually a good number of Jews in areas such as Ney York. That was a big reason they included freedom of religion in the first amendment.

There was also a smattering of French, German, or previously persecuted Catholics.


Roger that, already knew that, but hey, he was supposed to answer. He's got the US education.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 04:44 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;12210 wrote:
You have to forgive me. I'm one complicated animal. As a Christian nationalist, with a Catholic background, I'm very religious, but in the tradition of Christian humanism, as opposed to hardcore Biblicism. Also, I give history almost just as much credence as a spiritual guide and fountain of truth as I do other authorities, such as the Bible and the Pope. In other words, I guess my Christian denomination would be something along the lines of 'CHRISTIAN WARRIOR'.


I forgive you. I'll pray for you too.

So how do you know you're a Christian if you discount the Bible? By what standard do you measure your Christianity?

2 Peter 1:18-21, “For we did not follow cleverly contrived myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead, we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, a voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory:
This is My beloved Son.
I take delight in Him!
And we heard this voice when it came from heaven while we were with Him on the holy mountain. So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. First of all, you should know this: no prophecy of Scripture comes from one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, moved by the Holy Spirit, men spoke from God.”
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 06:41 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;12223 wrote:
" Onward Christian Soldiers - marching off to war . "


Yeah.:giterdone:
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 06:43 pm
@Dmizer,
"So how do you know you're a Christian if you discount the Bible? By what standard do you measure your Christianity?"

Three-way combination: Bible, Catholic theology, Christian history.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 06:48 pm
@Dmizer,
Be careful you don't end up worshiping the Bible instead of God. I've known many Fundies who do that. They get so obsessed with the Bible, they confuse it for God Himself. Both God and Jesus existed BEFORE the Bible. Jesus is not a collection of writings.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 09:51 pm
@Dmizer,
Dmizer;12229 wrote:
Overthrow a sovereign nation? Like Iraq? If you are taking into account the fact that the sovereign nation has attacked your ships and violated peace treaty's and resolutions, then yes overthrow it.
You paint a picture of the Barbary states as an innocent. They were guilty of seizing many ships and enslaving many more American sailors, illegally, then just the 300 he was attempting to free. It was an issue that had been occurring for many years. The United States was paying tribute(extortion) to the Barbary states (to the tune of millions of dollars, a large part of our governments finances) in order to have them stop seizing our property and sailors. Jefferson put a stop to that tribute and faced off with the Pirate states, something the former administration was afraid to pursue. Jefferson put to task the US Marine Corps to take the city of Tripoli and force concessions with the Barbary states. So in protecting the US and its interests Thomas Jefferson acted as any decent President would have. You paint a picture with half truths and deceit. Perhaps you should have watched the whole show, or perhaps looked up the history of it yourself. You haven't turned liberal have ya? Cause your last post sounded like a liberal. You criticize the US Marines glorious victory at Tripoli and chastise a US President for protecting his country. Righteous indeed!

P.S. I suppose you are in favor of pulling out of Iraq since it was a sovereign nation that we overthrew?
Quote:
Overthrow a sovereign nation? Like Iraq? If you are taking into account the fact that the sovereign nation has attacked your ships and violated peace treaty's and resolutions, then yes overthrow it.

Just wanted to know that we are on the same page.
Quote:
You paint a picture of the Barbary states as an innocent.

Where?
Quote:
They were guilty of seizing many ships and enslaving many more American sailors, illegally, then just the 300 he was attempting to free. It was an issue that had been occurring for many years. The United States was paying tribute(extortion) to the Barbary states (to the tune of millions of dollars, a large part of our governments finances) in order to have them stop seizing our property and sailors.

What else would you expect to happen when you negotiate with terrorists?
Quote:
Jefferson put a stop to that tribute and faced off with the Pirate states, something the former administration was afraid to pursue.

Sounds like what Bush was handed when Clinton left office.
Quote:
Jefferson put to task the US Marine Corps to take the city of Tripoli and force concessions with the Barbary states.

Comparable to Bush and the war on terror?
Quote:
So in protecting the US and its interests Thomas Jefferson acted as any decent President would have.

I bet you don't feel the same about Bush?
Quote:
You paint a picture with half truths and deceit. Perhaps you sould have watched the whole show, or perhaps looked up the history of it yourself.

I did watch the whole thing and i did read up on it online. What i wanted to know was what difference you thought there would be between Jefferson and Bush?

Quote:
You haven't turned liberal have ya? Cause your last post sounded like a liberal.

No, it was intended to sound liberal. I was coming from your point of view.
Quote:
You criticize the US Marines glorious victory at Tripoli and chastize a US President for protecting his country. Righteous indeed!

So tell me, as hypocritical as i sound, who do i sound like? Any thing remotely sound like a story most libs have been telling for quite some time about our president? Does that story tell the story of your life? It amazes me that you did not see this coming as by most lib admission, you can see the forest through the trees. Why do you deem Jefferson rightious and not Bush? Your double standard slip is showing!!!
Quote:
P.S. I suppose you are in favor of pulling out of Iraq since it was a soveriegn nation that we overthrew?

Nope, I think they should stay, what do you think? Should we pull out over an Illegal overthrow or stick with our president because of our "glorious victory over" Iraq "and chastize a US President for protecting his country. Righteous indeed!" Some thing tells me you would side with Jefferson back in the day then but you will not side with Bush now? Explain if you can?
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 07:38 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;12256 wrote:
"So how do you know you're a Christian if you discount the Bible? By what standard do you measure your Christianity?"

Three-way combination: Bible, Catholic theology, Christian history.


So, you do credit the Bible. Why?
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 07:41 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;12257 wrote:
Be careful you don't end up worshiping the Bible instead of God. I've known many Fundies who do that. They get so obsessed with the Bible, they confuse it for God Himself. Both God and Jesus existed BEFORE the Bible. Jesus is not a collection of writings.
0 Replies
 
Dmizer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 08:17 am
@Dmizer,
Clarification is required on my part,
I am not a Democrat, I am a republican. I am not a liberal, I am a moderate right leaning republican. Do not assume because we differ on religious views that I am not like minded politically. Where is it written that you have to be a christian to be Republican? Religion has it's place, and it is not in government, it is in the private sector.
I have met with President Bush, ate lunch with him, I have also met with The Clintons when they were in office. I could share my personal insights on both couples with you if you are interested (but that is another thread altogether).
I may not share your faith but I don't want a goverment that takes my money, or tells me how to live. I don't believe that climate change is man made, it is a natural cycle, out of mans control. If John Mccain is still in it at election time, I will be voting for him. Abortion is a State issue, not a federal one. Income tax should be repealed, it's a tool of socialism. I like pickup trucks not cars.
Iraq's invasion was a product of an idea that if you create a democracy in the heart of the middle east it will help stabilize the region in years to come. It's an idea that I agree with. If history is used to predict outcomes then eventually it will succeed. President Bush and his administration have made some critical mistakes in the first couple of years of the war, But the current path (post Rumsfeld) is starting to bear fruit. Rumsfeld was the wrong man for the job, (if you ever met him you would understand why) Talk to any military man of higher rank and he will concur. Powell should have been the secretary of defense. If he had been, the war in Iraq would be completely different (more successful).




P.S. Volunteer, FYI, I was born and bred in the US. My education, all 19 years of it from Kindergarden to Masters degree was in Pennslyvannia. and in response to your last post,
-"because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, moved by the Holy Spirit, men spoke from God.”-
How many extremists and tyrannts have used that line to control people?
David Koresh would have liked you!
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 02:33 pm
@Dmizer,
You met both Bush and the Clintons? Is it possible that we have someone of political importance on Conflicting views?
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 05:17 pm
@Dmizer,
"So, you do credit the Bible. Why?"

Because it's Christianity's most sacred literature. BUT.....the New Testament came about at least 190 years AFTER Jesus' death. The Christian community was well underway by then. The NT was eventually compiled and approved by the Catholic Church in the Fourth Century.

The Bible is great, but shouldn't be isolated from the whole, and worshipped as if it were God Himself. It isn't. It's not God. Lots of Fundies get so obsessed with it, they act as though it is.
 

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