The United States is not a Christian Nation

@Drnaline,

Using the Bible to legitimize the Bible is circular reasoning. Sorry. I still like you. Very Happy

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;12279 wrote:

The Bible is great, but shouldn't be isolated from the whole, and worshipped as if it were God Himself. It isn't. It's not God. Lots of Fundies get so obsessed with it, they act as though it is.

concur

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12273 wrote:

-"because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, moved by the Holy Spirit, men spoke from God.”-
How many extremists and tyrannts have used that line to control people?
David Koresh would have liked you!

I really, really doubt he would have liked me.

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12273 wrote:

Religion has it's place, and it is not in government, it is in the private sector.

You are entitled to your opinion, as long as you don't legislate it. Humm, where have I read that before?

By private sector, do you mean Dominoes Pizza or Ford; or do you mean in a closet and out of earshot?

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12273 wrote:

I have met with President Bush, ate lunch with him, I have also met with The Clintons when they were in office. I could share my personal insights on both couples with you if you are interested (but that is another thread altogether).

Wow, really? Gosh and golly gee wiz!

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12273 wrote:

Clarification is required on my part,... I may not share your faith but I don't want a goverment that takes my money, or tells me how to live. I don't believe that climate change is man made, it is a natural cycle, out of mans control. If John Mccain is still in it at election time, I will be voting for him. Abortion is a State issue, not a federal one. Income tax should be repealed, it's a tool of socialism. I like pickup trucks not cars.

Government already tells us how to live and is getting better at telling us every day.

Roger that, unless we have a colony on Mars that is pumping out the greenhouse gas to melt the Martian Ice Caps.

Vote for whom you wish.

Abortion is murder: The choice to abort a child is evil. Men and women who engage in sexual activity make the choice about having a child before they engage in sexual activity, activity that can result in the conception of a child. Abortion is the choice to murder the child who was conceived as the result of their sexual activity. The purpose of this choice is to relieve the father and mother from responsibility for their child and from responsibility for their original choice.

Really?

I like trucks too, much more practical. Just don't buy a two wheel drive truck then move to a mountain that requires a four wheel drive just to get up the driveway. Boy, that was stupid. I had to trade in my F-150 for a Jeep 3 days after moving.

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12273 wrote:

Iraq's invasion was a product of an idea that if you create a democracy in the heart of the middle east it will help stabilize the region in years to come. It's an idea that I agree with. If history is used to predict outcomes then eventually it will succeed. President Bush and his administration have made some critical mistakes in the first couple of years of the war, But the current path (post Rumsfeld) is starting to bear fruit. Rumsfeld was the wrong man for the job, (if you ever met him you would understand why) Talk to any military man of higher rank and he will concur. Powell should have been the secretary of defense. If he had been, the war in Iraq would be completely different (more successful).

Never met Mr Rumsfeld. The highest rank I've met or interacted with is an ASD. The highest military rank I've worked with is a full General.

Any military man who would say behind Mr Rumsfeld's back what they wouldn't say to his face is not worth his salt and bucking for a high paying job when they retire.

How do you know?

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@Dmizer,

I'm disgusted with my fellow Christians. They're never satisfied with Jesus. They feel compelled to express their religious sentiments through proxy conventions, such as Zionism, Biblical Fundamentalism, or denominationalism, such as hardcore Catholicism, which promotes Church-worship, instead of Christ-worship. To prove their devotion, Fundies glom on to Israel, as if they were Jews, which they're not. Catholics glom on to the Pope and their myriad traditions and customs, as if Jesus had been Catholic, which He wasn't. Never do Christians stay centered on Christ, and work to build up their own community. To hell with that. I'm staying with Jesus of Nazareth, and HIS people.

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12273 wrote:

Clarification is required on my part,
I am not a Democrat, I am a republican. I am not a liberal, I am a moderate right leaning republican. Do not assume because we differ on religious views that I am not like minded politically. Where is it written that you have to be a christian to be Republican? Religion has it's place, and it is not in government, it is in the private sector.
I have met with President Bush, ate lunch with him, I have also met with The Clintons when they were in office. I could share my personal insights on both couples with you if you are interested (but that is another thread altogether).
I may not share your faith but I don't want a goverment that takes my money, or tells me how to live. I don't believe that climate change is man made, it is a natural cycle, out of mans control. If John Mccain is still in it at election time, I will be voting for him. Abortion is a State issue, not a federal one. Income tax should be repealed, it's a tool of socialism. I like pickup trucks not cars.
Iraq's invasion was a product of an idea that if you create a democracy in the heart of the middle east it will help stabilize the region in years to come. It's an idea that I agree with. If history is used to predict outcomes then eventually it will succeed. President Bush and his administration have made some critical mistakes in the first couple of years of the war, But the current path (post Rumsfeld) is starting to bear fruit. Rumsfeld was the wrong man for the job, (if you ever met him you would understand why) Talk to any military man of higher rank and he will concur. Powell should have been the secretary of defense. If he had been, the war in Iraq would be completely different (more successful).

P.S. Volunteer, FYI, I was born and bred in the US. My education, all 19 years of it from Kindergarden to Masters degree was in Pennslyvannia. and in response to your last post,
-"because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, moved by the Holy Spirit, men spoke from God.”-
How many extremists and tyrannts have used that line to control people?
David Koresh would have liked you!

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I am not a Democrat, I am a republican. I am not a liberal, I am a moderate right leaning republican. Do not assume because we differ on religious views that I am not like minded politically. Where is it written that you have to be a christian to be Republican?

Do you consider yourself Conservative moreso?

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Where is it written that you have to be a christian to be Republican? Religion has it's place, and it is not in government, it is in the private sector.

No where, this is a free country. If religion has no place in government, why do they have a prayer before holding legislative sessions? That goes for most if not all state governments as well. Would it not seem to you that this has established a precedent? Religion encompasses every aspect of live that includes governments, IMO people can not and do not check there beliefs at the governmental door. You can ask us to but by the same token we can ask you to do the same by budding out, don't you think?

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I have met with President Bush, ate lunch with him, I have also met with The Clintons when they were in office. I could share my personal insights on both couples with you if you are interested (but that is another thread altogether).

I would be very interested.

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I may not share your faith but I don't want a government that takes my money, or tells me how to live.

You don't seem to mind the government telling us where and when we can pray. And awarding the ACLU hard earned tax dollars to recoup there legal fees for infringing on our God given right, correct? What does "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," mean to you? I seems you wish it would just apply to you?

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Talk to any military man of higher rank and he will concur.

Grig Gen. Kenny C Montoya, is the highest i know personally and he does not concur. I know quite a few Colonel's and Majors as my wife runs the National Guard Armory board. I know countless(not really) retired generals. And i would say at best there would be 50/50 split.

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If he had been, the war in Iraq would be completely different (more successful).

That's debatable. Thanks for the infomercial, it nice to know some background of this forums members. I'm glad we have you, i know sometimes it does not seem that way but i do appreciate what you have to say. That is sincere.

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@Dmizer,

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Catholics glom on to the Pope and their myriad traditions and customs, as if Jesus had been Catholic, which He wasn't.

Jesus gave St. Peter the authority to start the Catholic Church, so it had his seal of approval. There are a large number of things that are left to the Christians to decide in terms of religion. Therefore, as long as it does not conflict with basic Christian teaching, the Catholic Church can create theology as it sees fit, which is usually the correct thing to do because it is done by experts rather than So the organized thought and logic of the Church, along with a lot of tradition that was automatically legitimate because it came from the time during and shortly Jesus' life, is the most legitimet form of Christianity.

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@Pinochet73,

"Jesus gave St. Peter the authority to start the Catholic Church....."

What? Jesus said "Catholic Church"?!!? Gimme a break. Please.

"There are a large number of things that are left to the Christians to decide in terms of religion."

It's obvious that EVERYTHING Christian, since Jesus' death, has been a matter of human interpretation, which is absolutely relative.

".....along with a lot of tradition that was automatically legitimate...."

Nothing relative can be 'automatically legitimate' from an objective standpoint. It will always be subjective, that is, a matter of opinion.

"....because it came from the time during and shortly Jesus' life...."

Good point. Agreed.

"....is the most legitimet form of Christianity."

In your opinion. I tend to agree, but not completely. The Church has gotten lost in PC, and doesn't speak to my needs as much as it once did. Neither does ANY organized form of Christianity. I see Christians, for the most part, either fighting for wrong causes (ie, Zionism), or in full retreat, rationalizing weakness with the teachings of Jesus.:spaz:

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@Dmizer,

Most Catholics are cultural Catholics. Like Cultural Jews, they call themselves Catholics but do not really practice the religion. They may go to mass on the big holidays (Christmas, Easter) but they don't bother with the whole every sunday bit. Statistics prove it, the attendence rates at Catholic churchs is way down compared to previous generations. Most Catholics pick and choose which Church rules they will follow. It is all based on convienence, take birth control for example. Catholic Church is against it, yet show me a Catholic that doesn't use it.

1 Reply

@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12367 wrote:

Most Catholics are cultural Catholics. Like Cultural Jews, they call themselves Catholics but do not really practice the religion. They may go to mass on the big holidays (Christmas, Easter) but they don't bother with the whole every sunday bit. Statistics prove it, the attendence rates at Catholic churchs is way down compared to previous generations. Most Catholics pick and choose which Church rules they will follow. It is all based on convienence, take birth control for example. Catholic Church is against it, yet show me a Catholic that doesn't use it.

I like to call them "Non-practicing"

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Most Catholics are cultural Catholics.

I would think that most people of faith come from what they were taught from there parents, and the same with there parents. I also believe this applys to all other religions as well as catholics. Is every jew you know a perfect jew, what about baptists, they all perfect? Agnostics, i'm sure there perfect right? How could any religionwith followers not be of some kind of cultural base.

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Like Cultural Jews, they call themselves Catholics but do not really practice the religion.

How many Jews do you know who's parents were not Jews, without using a search engine can you come up with one?

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They may go to mass on the big holidays (Christmas, Easter) but they don't bother with the whole every sunday bit.

Maybe a little judgemental coming from a non practicing Christian? Or were you born an atheist?

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Most Catholics pick and choose which Church rules they will follow.

Are you saying most Jews, Baptists, Mormans, don't pick and choose which rules the will follow? Wouldn't that make them sinless therefor perfect?

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It is all based on convienence, take birth control for example. Catholic Church is against it, yet show me a Catholic that doesn't use it.

Your looking at him. So much for convienience.

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@Dmizer,

No claim of perfection here. I never claimed to be contrary to your statement. I was showing that the Catholic church is a shadow of what it used to be. It is a failing institution. Declining membership, massive infiltration of Homosexuals amoungst its clergy, huge lawsuits, the cover ups, take your pick the list goes on. The Catholic church is nothing like the church Jesus Christ and his disciples intended it to be. The rock upon which the church was built has crumbled. So much for divine providence.

How many jews can I name whose parents were not jews? You say name one? ok Sammy davis Jr. Or how about Madonna (Kabballa) or how about Rod Carew. People convert back and forth all the time.

Judgemental? nope sorry, just pointing out the facts. I never expressed an opinnion one way or the other.

"Are you saying most Jews, Baptists, Mormans, don't pick and choose which rules the will follow? Wouldn't that make them sinless therefor perfect?"

Like all organized religions the hypocracy runs rampant amoungst it's members. Thats why they had to come up with something to keep people around despite their inability to follow all the Dogma. Thus they came up with confession, indulgences and all sorts of policies to wipe away sin. All man made systems to keep the money and attendence coming in.
Your signature drnaline supports the fact that the Catholic Church is a sham.

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12389 wrote:

The rock upon which the church was built has crumbled. So much for divine providence.

You misunderstand the Rock:

"Who do people say the Son of Man is?...and He gave his disciples orders to tell no one that He was the Messiah."

"Therefore, what will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy those farmers and give the vineyard to others. But when they heard this they said, "No-never!"

But He looked at them and said, "Then what is the meaning of this Scripture: The stone that the builders rejected-this has become the conerstone? Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to peices, and if it falls on anyone, it will grind him to powder!""

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@Dmizer,

Dmizer;12389 wrote:

No claim of perfection here. I never claimed to be contrary to your statement. I was showing that the Catholic church is a shadow of what it used to be. It is a failing institution. Declining membership, massive infiltration of Homosexuals amongst its clergy, huge lawsuits, the cover ups, take your pick the list goes on. The Catholic church is nothing like the church Jesus Christ and his disciples intended it to be. The rock upon which the church was built has crumbled. So much for divine providence.

How many jews can I name whose parents were not jews? You say name one? ok Sammy davis Jr. Or how about Madonna (Kabballa) or how about Rod Carew. People convert back and forth all the time.

Judgemental? nope sorry, just pointing out the facts. I never expressed an opinnion one way or the other.

"Are you saying most Jews, Baptists, Mormans, don't pick and choose which rules the will follow? Wouldn't that make them sinless therefor perfect?"

Like all organized religions the hypocracy runs rampant amoungst it's members. Thats why they had to come up with something to keep people around despite their inability to follow all the Dogma. Thus they came up with confession, indulgences and all sorts of policies to wipe away sin. All man made systems to keep the money and attendence coming in.
Your signature drnaline supports the fact that the Catholic Church is a sham.

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No claim of perfection here. I never claimed to be contrary to your statement. I was showing that the Catholic church is a shadow of what it used to be. It is a failing institution. Declining membership, massive infiltration of Homosexuals amongst its clergy, huge lawsuits, the cover ups, take your pick the list goes on. The Catholic church is nothing like the church Jesus Christ and his disciples intended it to be. The rock upon which the church was built has crumbled. So much for divine providence.

So what makes you an expert on catholics? Why do you have a particular distaste for us? The biggest problem the catholic church has is dealing with people like you who hold such a deep hatred for it. Being so big makes and easy target. Have you or any of the things you are opinion ed on shaken my faith? Not once. The rock you speak of seems solid enough for me.

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Judgemental? nope sorry, just pointing out the facts. I never expressed an opinion one way or the other.

Nope, you pointing out what you believe to be facts. Your opinion is being expressed every time you click the "submit reply" button. And as your point always seems centered on Catholic Christians i would have to say you have opinion ed in one particular direction.

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Like all organized religions the hypocrisy runs rampant amongst it's members. That's why they had to come up with something to keep people around despite their inability to follow all the Dogma.

What makes you think the people would leave once they figured out they were not living up to your standard of being Catholic?

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Thus they came up with confession, indulgences and all sorts of policies to wipe away sin.

Ever done something you felt bad about and latter apologized for it? Ever been jealous of what some others had? How do you make yourself feel better about being wronged? I'm sure you have an emotional reaction, whether you will be honest about remains to be seen.

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All man made systems to keep the money and attendence coming in.

Probably includes agnostic/atheist dogma as well.

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Your signature drnaline supports the fact that the Catholic Church is a sham.

This aut to be good, how does a quote from Ann Coulter support that? When has the Catholic Church ever been not human? Subject to the same faults you are. So using your standard for Catholics how do you rate yourself? Since you like talking about Catholics i'd like to know this question specificially. Not that i think you will answer it?

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@Dmizer,

Catholic theology, however, is vastly superior to Protestant-based theologies. Don't kid yourselves. Raving, unschooled lunatics armed only with the Bible and a TV camera stuck in their faces DO NOT KNOW THE TRUE LORD.

Now, I am one of those Catholics some of you have identified as lapsed. Nonetheless, CHRIST is my life, and always will be.

The problem of the dying Church is complicated. Every lapsed Catholic has his own issues with the institution and way of life. Mine include the following: 1) over-emphasis on the Church and its authority, instead of a focus on Jesus; 2) mundane, routine, UNINSPIRING Masses, justified as such on the basis of authority alone, which is demoralizing; 3) submission to PC; 4) unresponsiveness to mounting, urgent, human problems.

But, as the old saying goes -- once Catholic, always Catholic. I will never change denominations, even though I will never qualify by traditional standards as a 'devout' Catholic. I'm a CHRISTIAN WARRIOR, and fall outside all conventional definitions. That's my right. That's my method. That's my life.

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@Dmizer,

"So what makes you an expert on catholics? Why do you have a particular distaste for us? The biggest problem the catholic church has is dealing with people like you who hold such a deep hatred for it. Being so big makes and easy target. Have you or any of the things you are opinion ed on shaken my faith? Not once. The rock you speak of seems solid enough for me."

I wouldn't say I am an expert, however I attended Catholic school from Pre-K to 12th grade, and my parents had my siblings and I attending church every Sunday. From age 9 till 14 I was an alter boy, and had to memorize the mass in Latin. I know the entire mass by heart in Latin and english. Can you say the same Drnaline? No hatred of the Catholic church here, I just see the church for what it has become. So tell me about your Catholic expertise, for example, do you even know why priests cannot marry? They claim it is based on biblical reasons, yet it is not. How about the hall of the pine in the Vatican, or perhaps the pine cone on the Popes staff, do you know what they symbolize? or where they came from?
Thou shall not worship any graven images, right? or more to the point:
"You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:2-17
What about Christ on the Crucifix, or statues of Mary and the saints that people pray to? Are these not graven images?

"you shall have no other gods before me..........You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God,"

Thats Funny, Because I spent much of my youth praying to Mary and many other saints for protection and guidance, and yet God was pretty specific about not placing them before him. I guess Catholics get a pass on that one too? I could go on for pages about the hypocracy and corruption of the Catholic church, and it has nothing to do with "Hatred" it's just the way it is.

"What makes you think the people would leave once they figured out they were not living up to your standard of being Catholic?"
I don't think it, The Catholic church thinks it. Why do you think they have become so PC in the present day? They have bucked many of the traditions that the Church was based on to adapt to the convienence of it's constituents, in order to keep it's population from falling away. like claiming to not accept Homosexuality, yet many of it's priests are Gay. Two of the priests at my former church were Gay, everyone knew it, they just ignored it. Kind of like that whole molestation epidemic the church is going through. The Thousands of kids molested...I suppose you will say it never happened.
Pssssst.....ignore it and it will go away!

"Ever done something you felt bad about and latter apologized for it? Ever been jealous of what some others had? How do you make yourself feel better about being wronged? I'm sure you have an emotional reaction, whether you will be honest about remains to be seen."

Do you know what the Papal indulgences were? They were approved by the Catholic Church, giving people the ability to do as they please regardless of morals or ethics, as long as they made payment to the church in order to achieve forgiveness. So as long as you pay money to offset your sins your ok in the eyes of the church. Thats a convienent system. You don't think they still do it today? how about Annulments of marriages where infidelity ruins the marriage and they pay the church to annull it, thus stating by way of the church, it never existed. Thats convienent too!

"This aut to be good, how does a quote from Ann Coulter support that? When has the Catholic Church ever been not human? Subject to the same faults you are. So using your standard for Catholics how do you rate yourself? Since you like talking about Catholics i'd like to know this question specificially. Not that i think you will answer it?"

Ann Coulter was speaking of the ludacris Papal indulgences which is referenced in your signature. It was a sham to raise money, I believe I explained that above.
There is human and then there is corruption and even criminal. Both of which run rampant in the Catholic church. For the record, I have never been subject to the same faults as the Catholic church. I am not Homosexual, I do not rape children, I do not tell people to pay me money in order to forgive their sins. The list could get really long here, so I stop there.
Using the standard of Catholics to rate my self? I did that already, thats why I got out of the church. The standards are decidely flexible and subject to change at anytime in order to fit the convienence of it's corrupt leaders.

P.S. aut is spelled ought. Smile

lol, Pinochet is catching on, proving my point:
"The problem of the dying Church is complicated. Every lapsed Catholic has his own issues with the institution and way of life. Mine include the following: 1) over-emphasis on the Church and its authority, instead of a focus on Jesus; 2) mundane, routine, UNINSPIRING Masses, justified as such on the basis of authority alone, which is demoralizing; 3) submission to PC; 4) unresponsiveness to mounting, urgent, human problems.

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@Dmizer,

Wow, finally got you to open up! I new there was some sort of hangup with you and the church, you don't see it as hatred but alot of others do. You have a deep seeded conflict that stems from your up bringing.

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Can you say the same Drnaline?

I'm glad to say, no. Alterboy sometimes latin with distinction to my native tongue is as far as i get.

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do you even know why priests cannot marry?

They are married, to God.

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Using the standard of Catholics to rate my self? I did that already, thats why I got out of the church.

I'm getting to see the whole picture now. The situation you are talking about is yourself! You did not feel worthy by your own standard. And was angered by your own determination. All the while feeling that you were better then the hypocrits you deem inferior. Explains why you resent some one like me and go to great lengths to make me FEEL the way you do. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

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The standards are decidely flexible and subject to change at anytime in order to fit the convienence of it's corrupt leaders.

Whos standards you talking about, yours or theres?

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P.S. aut is spelled ought.

I know, isn't free will wonderful.

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@Dmizer,

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What? Jesus said "Catholic Church"?!!? Gimme a break. Please

Sorry, but I don't recall saying that. Jesus said the Peter was the rock on which he built his Church. Peter went to Rome where he effectively started the Catholic Church which is overseen by his successor, the Pope, Bishop of Rome. Therefore, in essence, Peter started the Catholic, or Universal Church, because Jesus gave him the authority to. Jesus would have approved of this, or he wouldn't have given the authority to Peter, so he would have approved of the Church.

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Nothing relative can be 'automatically legitimate' from an objective standpoint. It will always be subjective, that is, a matter of opinion.

So, you're saying that our modern interpretation is just as good as the interpretation of the early Church, where Jesus' teachings were still strongly felt and spread by those who experienced them firsthand?

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1) over-emphasis on the Church and its authority, instead of a focus on Jesus

Maybe you are just mistaking a more complex form of worshipping the Holy Trinity as opposed to the simple form you seem to advocate. I myself think that a complex form of morals and worshipping is needed for such a potentially complicated religion. There are, as I said, a lot of questions left unanswered in the Old and New Testaments.

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2) mundane, routine, UNINSPIRING Masses, justified as such on the basis of authority alone, which is demoralizing

The traditional mass is certainly inspiring in it's own way. I think that most get a sense of it being the real deal, the way it's always been done and should be done. I find hymns and songs sung during Catholic Masses more moving than the super-excited Protestant choirs and guitars or whatever. I am appalled and scandalized at charismatic Christianity, which seems to me to be fake or forcibly induced so as to be like everyone else, etc.

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3) submission to PC

You can be Catholic without being PC. Our popes are still conservative, and the Crusades, for example, were never apologized for.

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4) unresponsiveness to mounting, urgent, human problems.

Such as???

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So tell me about your Catholic expertise, for example, do you even know why priests cannot marry?

Because Jesus was unmarried, and they choose to emulate him in this particular way. Chastity is a virtue and sign, basically, of self-control and being able to sacrifice something.

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Thats Funny, Because I spent much of my youth praying to Mary and many other saints for protection and guidance, and yet God was pretty specific about not placing them before him. I guess Catholics get a pass on that one too? I could go on for pages about the hypocracy and corruption of the Catholic church, and it has nothing to do with "Hatred" it's just the way it is.

So you're basically a run-of-the-mill lapsed Catholic who never bothered to learn much before formulating his opinions, with all due respect? Praying to the saints is praying for intercession on your behalf in whatever their area is, not saint-worship, by asking God to intercede. Basically, you are asking them to pray for you.

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I don't think it, The Catholic church thinks it. Why do you think they have become so PC in the present day? They have bucked many of the traditions that the Church was based on to adapt to the convienence of it's constituents, in order to keep it's population from falling away. like claiming to not accept Homosexuality, yet many of it's priests are Gay. Two of the priests at my former church were Gay, everyone knew it, they just ignored it. Kind of like that whole molestation epidemic the church is going through. The Thousands of kids molested...I suppose you will say it never happened.

The thousands of kids molested? Can you say 'beliefs produced by media overcoverrage and blowing up of an event?' Do you know how small the percentage of Catholic priests involved in molestation cases is? Less than 10% in the area where it happened most, Boston. There's no teacher-student sex abuse scandal touted by the media, is there? Claiming there's a scandal in the Church sells papers, that's about it. Perhaps the priests should unionize.

Ann Coulter was speaking of the ludacris Papal indulgences which is referenced in your signature. It was a sham to raise money, I believe I explained that above.

You are not right about Papal indulgences, and neither is Coulter, which betrays your ignorance on the issue. Indulgences refer to anything that may shorten a stay in Purgatory, etc. That specific type of indulgence was stopped centuries ago, get over it.

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I have never been subject to the same faults as the Catholic church. I am not Homosexual, I do not rape children, I do not tell people to pay me money in order to forgive their sins.

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P.S. aut is spelled ought.

'Ludacris' is spelled ludicrous, unless you are insinuating that a rapper had something to do with a centuries old and now defunct practice.

I think it would do you good to check out a site called catholicanswers.com

How exactly does an institution be homosexual or rape children?

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The United States is not a Christian Nation

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