Oh, I'm a little upset! VENTING RANT warning

The bank has first dibs, for sure, and I just looked at our agreement. I'm covered once the sale goes through. We're talking about a fair chunk of money here - the house was valued at $1M +. And his property assessment this year is only slightly lower than it was the year it was appraised (I have a copy of the bank appraisal) so he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. Or his ass, your pick.

'tosser..'

maybe a nice enough guy - but... tosser.

(got one of those too - ho hum)

<winds neck back in and needs to go to sleep>

do what you need to do girl to make sure you're sorted.

((((Mame))))

My ex and I differed in background re money too, which I won't go into at length, both poor at different points in strikingly different ways. I ended up not giving a **** about money or business while knowing how to live on nothing (or nothing in the US sense, father unemployed mostly for years, though creative and credentialed); ex came from depression penny pinchers with strong security values, though as whites they lived in the heart of the south LA ghetto, yes, re thrifty house purchase in the first place.

Interesting, the whole thing re money and marriage... and divorce.

And Alex just brought up another point - what if he WILLS the house to someone??? His new g/f, for example... I'll never get paid! ****, ****, ****!

methinks you need to talk to a lawyer...

you could have mine on Monday, I won't get there in the snow.... you could try tho - you're hardier than me.

Get yerself some advice girl. Don't let him make you agree to anything. Step outside, look in and ... ahem... grab some balls! No, I didn't say that- my sleeping potion did

gotta sleep - love ya gal... will check back in the morningzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

x

you can't will something ain't paid for...

I echo this suggestion by Izzie, Mame.

Reading through your original post, I think you've been very reasonable, and willing to be flexible, too.

Stick to your guns!

But do get some additional solid advice. You deserve it!

Two thing come to my mind:
1) if it ain't in writing, it doesn't exist. So get everything is writing. If these provisions were in the divorce judgement, then they would be non-negotiable. So the fact that he is trying to manipulate you tells me that these terms are not airtight legally.

2) Why are you even talking to him about this? Tell him to get a lawyer if he wants to change terms of the divorce.

Keep him at a distance and approach this like a business. He sounds pitiful and that can be a maniupulative hold on you.

Mame, are you actually divorced or just legally separated?
Did you sign over the deed of the house to him?

Re: the "unlikeable" comment...

An ex knows how to get to you. And it amazes me how they never fail to use that when things are over.

Don't believe it. He was just being pissy because you wouldn't go along with his plan. I agree with the others...taking you off the retirement, etc. after he'd initially agreed shows a real lack of integrity, and I wouldn't trust him to honor agreements. Frankly, I wouldn't care if he had to sell the house. I'd want my money now.

I guess what bothers me the most is that you still feel a need to defend him, despite the fact that he is not treating you particularly well. The guy may be great at his job, a wonderful friend to all, and tall, dark & handsome ( )...but he sounds like a loser as an ex-husband. Sorry you're having to put up with this.

Okay, one: it is a legal document, signed and witnessed by the bank manager. Two: he can't get out of it unless I agree to a change. Three: I told him that any changes are going to be in writing and notarized, so they'll be legal, too. So, I could take the bugger to court, if I had to.

Eva, I'm not defending him. I think he's a jerk for trying this stuff on me. Here's two emails to show you that:

ME:

Hi Kelly:

I've been thinking about the conversation we had and yes, I'm still okay with you paying less, but I don't really think it's fair that the payments get stretched out for five additional years at my cost, so...I think a 5% interest charge each year on the amount deferred, payable in advance with the annual now-reduced amount, would be fair compensation.

HIM:

I think that this is a bit excessive and really quite unfair.

Yes I am stretching out payments but that is so I can afford them

I also have to renegotiate my mtge and all signs are that interest rates
are going up substantially and I am already paying the minimum mtge payment and will have to pay more now each week just to keep the place.

** I tried to renogotiate with bank earlier and they would only give me 6.5% over 5 years & were going to charge me $17,500 - in penalties.

I figure that we made a deal for me to pay you a good amount of cash.
BUT I have to live - the annual amount is killing me - I really think it is unfair
for me to pay interest - you are getting the money one way or the other.

I am also getting a formal will and everything to ensure that you are paid every red cent - that seems pretty fair and honest to me. I can't believe you want to extract more cash from me.

You know I am not rich and I have only a few years left of salary.

ME:

Kelly,

You got a great deal when you didn't have to pay it all out at once. I agreed to take that money over 10 years when I could have taken it all and invested it and made $$$. Imagine the money I could have made. Now you want more concessions from me, at no cost to you. But it will cost me - I would invest the 33% that you want to defer in my RRSPs or my TFSA and make money on it. What you are asking is for me to defer not just that money, but the investment interest on it. And... to extend this whole situation by 4 or 5 years.

You have already modified our original agreement, to my detriment. You were supposed to keep me on your extended health, your pension (beneficiary), and your life insurance until you paid me out. You have removed me from those and have conveniently forgotten that you'd agreed to it.

In addition, you got the best part of the deal with regards to the house contents.

You've made the decision to stay in that house, even though it's killing you and you knew it would. You could have sold it when it was worth $1M+ and bought something more affordable, but you didn't. And you renovated extensively last year when you were fully aware you'd have to come up with the annual $. Why should I pay for those decisions?

I'm not responsible for your actions. I think I've been more than fair to you, Kelly, and you have two options for paying me - take your pick. I'm not going to subsidize your house renos and investments. I didn't even want to agree to the reduction in the first place, but if you are going to choose that option, then there will be the interest issue.

I don't want to discuss this. Pick one and if it's the lower amount, we'll draft up a new notarized agreement, and this time I insist on having a certified copy of the page in your will where you guarantee I'll be paid out after the mortgage is paid off. And I'd like it to be written in that that page be sent to me each time you make a payment as I don't trust you anymore.

HIM:

the house isn't worth what it was
that opens everythign up

ME:

No, it certainly doesn't. It doesn't open anything up at the bank with respect to your mortgage payments and it doesn't open anything up with me. A deal is a deal, and ours is signed and witnessed.

What if the house was worth double? Does that mean I would get twice as much?? Of course not!

HIM:

No wonder everyone dislikes you.
~~~~~~~


Yes, he's a jerk. Especially when it comes to money.

It is in writing, it is legal. It also says in there that I am to be paid out in full should the house be sold.

I think legally I'm okay. But if this continues, I will take my copy of the agreement to a lawyer. Good advice, and will keep you posted

Thanks.

Is that true, Rocky?

you are WAY too nice.



get a mean attorney.

(a female one)

I did sign the deed of the house over to him in front of the lawyer and bank manager once he signed our agreement. We were never legally married.

Yup, it's pretty clear from the info given that you're a thoroughly dethpicable person, Mame.

Translation: I hate it when you're right, and I'm wrong, and you call me on my ****.

I bet if the value of the house had increased he wouldnt want to give you more money

Have the renovations increased the value?

Well, the renos would have increased the value, but I don't know by how much... they were substantial, but in a provincial property assessment, they only attribute a little value to the house - most of it is the property - ie location. Which is prime, in his case. 180 degree water view on a main road in the best area in Canada (not kidding about that - it's the primo place). His house was valued at $24,000 and the property at $700,000... and in West Van, that's about $200+ under the real value. The assessment is for tax purposes. The year we had it appraised, the assessment was for $748K, but the appraisals were all $250K above that.

JTT - yes, I'm dethpicable

DD and dd - yeah, it goes one way - HIS way.

Rocky, if I do get a lawyer you can bet she'll be a barracuda but I don't think it'll come to that. He knows what's right and he'll have to figure it out, this time without my 'help'.

you have to own something free and clear to pass it on.

otherwise the creditor maintains their interest.

Tico or jes could prolly tell you better.