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Young folk singer dead after attack by coyotes in Nova Scotia park

 
 
r3ptilia
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 12:02 am
WOW, that is really sad. She's only 19. She would have lived if she didn't go hike on that day
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 12:43 am
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

I've seen a pack of coyotes bring down a full grown doe, slightly larger than any dog I've ever seen.
I 'm pretty sure that she was an UNARMED full grown doe.


Quote:
Far as I know, David, she wasn't packin'. But she was trying to sprint across an ice-covered pond, slippery as hell, which enabled the pack of coyotes to catch up with her because her hooves went skidding around on the ice. My point is that a cooperative band of the canine beasts can bring down some fair sized critters, ergo a dog is not immune to an attack.
True.

Quote:
Now, most civilian handguns have magazine capacities of no more than eight or nine rounds, only six with most wheel-guns. Packs of coyotes usually attack in far greater numbers; there's strength in numbers. Moral: never go walking in the woods alone, with or without a firearm.
Indeed, it is dangerous to go alone.
I saw a horrible, poignant account of 2 pretty, young girls who went hiking together in Alaska.
Thay rejected an offer of guns, and went out hiking, the 2 of them.
Soon thereafter, one of them had to jump off a cliff, after she had been mauled,
to avoid the lethal rage of a polar bear, who killed her companion in front of her eyes.
With Cartesian certainty,
I have to believe that each of these girls
wished that she coud defend herself more successfully in that situation, as the bear's attacks went on,
and on, and on, according to the cliff jumper, who survived her wounds.


I sincerely wish that thay had been better prepared to handle the situation.
Better yet, that thay shoud hike somewhere that is safe.

As to animal group behavior: I have never heard of a case
wherein any pack of wolves nor coyotes continue to hang around
after a human opens up on them with any kind of decent firepower
and thay see and smell their friends' blood on the snow accompanied by
howls of pain and conspicuous injuries.

Human predators' behavior is similar, in that respect.
Thay hear the call of the open road, pretty fast.





David
NickFun
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 12:57 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Do you really think a gun would have helped? For an animal that size you would kill it on the first shot, something unlikely even if you're an expert marksman. Otherwise you're just going to piss it off even further.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 02:01 am
@NickFun,
NickFun wrote:

Quote:
Do you really think a gun would have helped?
I am confident that it woud have.
Even just the look on the human 's face while aiming it
woud probably startle him; (that works with humans too; I have kinda done that, sort of).
Thay know counteraggression when thay see it.



Quote:
For an animal that size you would kill it on the first shot,
something unlikely even if you're an expert marksman.
Respectfully, I must disagree.
In my opinion, even putting a round into the dirt in front of him,
the report and the shock of getting dirt hitting him from below
woud startle him and activate his flight reaction
which is prominent concerning humans (those who are not running away) anyway.

For a hiker going into the woods, I 'd recommend a .44 magnum revolver
unless he or she wishes to carry a shoulder weapon,
because we hear of this sort of thing with cougars, bears, wolves,
but if confronted with this situation, I 'm pretty sure that even
slightly clipping him on his nose or jaw with a tiny little .22 round woud
very likely cause him to flee. Unless he is rabid, I don t think killing him woud be necessary,
because it is in their NATURE to run away in the face of human aggression.

To state the obvious:
if u actually DO put a .44 round into a coyote, that 's the end of that.
Regardless of hitting any vital organ,
there 'd be a tremendous catastrophic SHOCK that woud end his attack.
The others woud take the hint.

As to the need of being "an expert marksman"
remember that the coyote 's teeth are completely harmless
unless he closes the distance between him and u to zero feet & zero inches.
In other words: it shoud not be a difficult shot.
Taylor perished from bite wounds; she coud have put the muzzle in his ear b4 she popped him.
Even a knife woud have helped. Defensive attitude, morale -- counts for a lot.




Quote:

Otherwise you're just going to piss it off even further.
See above.
That might count with bears, not coyotes.





David
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:04 am
@OmSigDAVID,
How much do you really know about hunting?
A bear which is shot at comes at you very very fast.

Most bears are shot at a distance where they still can reach the hunter even at a perfect heart/lung shot, if they get the idea and has an idea where the hunter is.
Stand still and be quiet.
How can a non hunter be able to shoot the perfect heart/lung shot???
Francis
 
  3  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:18 am
Saab wrote:
How can a non hunter be able to shoot the perfect heart/lung shot???

By being ten years old, according to David..
mushypancakes
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 03:18 am
Very sad. It's one of those things you know in the back of your mind it can happen, but it seems so far off and rare that it is still so surprising when it does.

Not a nice way to die.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 04:16 am
@mushypancakes,
Un huh. If I were still in condition to go backpacking, I would go. One time, I saw a fresh bear track. It was food for thought, but you can't be ruled by fear.
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 04:37 am
OmSigDavid wrote:
Quote:
Guns are defensive emergency equipment; it behooves their possesser to keep them reasonably within reach, the same as a fire extinguisher.


I suppose if one is to (according to David) walk around at all times with a gun in their possession, then one should also walk around with a fire extinguisher attached to their person in case of fire.

Shocked

Sounds rather moronic, but David says it is so Rolling Eyes
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 05:32 am
@saab,
saab wrote:

Quote:
How much do you really know about hunting?

I am not a hunter; (not a hiker, either: I take taxi cabs)
I like animals, and have no wish to harm them,
unless that be necessary on a defensive basis.

If others wish to hunt them to reduce excess population,
I will leave that to them. The animals are safe from me,
except in that I am rather carnivorous.
I seldom or never give hunting advice.
I comment on successfully coping with
the predatory violence of man or beast
.




Quote:
A bear which is shot at comes at you very very fast.
U 've gotta do what u 've gotta do if u wish to survive.
Most of the time, I choose to remain away from feral bears.
I re-iterate: I am not a hunter; I have no wish to be a hunter.





Quote:
Most bears are shot at a distance where they still can reach
the hunter even at a perfect heart/lung shot, if they get the idea
and has an idea where the hunter is.
Stand still and be quiet.
U address a predatory emergency
when u r confronted with one that is not of your choice,
like peaceful innocent hikers getting attacked by cougars, bears,
coyotes (very rare, I think) or wolves (also rare).

Quote:
How can a non hunter be able to shoot the perfect heart/lung shot???
A non-hunter, Taylor, the decedent,
was innocently minding her own business when she was attacked
and killed by coyotes. She perished from their bites; from this,
we know that thay were at zero distance from her. She coud have
put the muzzle of her revolver in his mouth or his ear,
if she had one; not a difficult target.

I desire that victims of predatory violence
successfully control that event, such that thay survive it.
Accordingly, thay shoud be sufficiently well armed
to bring that about. For the woods, I suggest a heavy bore
shoulder weapon, or minimally a .44 magnum revolver
with full magnum loads (not .44 special).
For that purpose, I 'd choose my .44 magnum Ruger SuperBlackhawk.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 05:36 am
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

Saab wrote:
How can a non hunter be able to shoot the perfect heart/lung shot???

By being ten years old, according to David..
This is confusing or perplexing, Francis.
Being one particular age does not create accuracy.

I don 't know what u mean
nor Y u wrote that.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 05:42 am
@mushypancakes,
mushypancakes wrote:

Very sad. It's one of those things you know in the back of your mind it can happen,
but it seems so far off and rare that it is still so surprising when it does.

Not a nice way to die.
I keep hearing that it keeps happening to unarmed (HELPLESS) hikers -- cougars, bears, wolves, etc.
Most of the time, we hear that thay had hiked many times
and nothing went awry, before thay got killed one day.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 05:49 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

OmSigDavid wrote:
Quote:
Guns are defensive emergency equipment;
it behooves their possesser to keep them reasonably within reach,
the same as a fire extinguisher.


Quote:

I suppose if one is to (according to David) walk around at all times
with a gun in their possession, then one should also walk around
with a fire extinguisher attached to their person in case of fire.
Its YOUR life, not mine.
If the fauna of Canada go to nibbling & munching on U,
I will not feel the pain. U r the captain of the good ship Richard, not me.
U will make your own decisions and live with the results.





David
0 Replies
 
mushypancakes
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 06:11 am
@roger,
Exactly.

Did you see the bear?

0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 07:12 am
@OmSigDAVID,

You have to know the bodylanguage of a bear to know if it is going to attack or not. A bear on two legs is not attacking.
A provoced bear might attack but as a rule it is feigned attack. If it attacks you can if neccesary shoot an empty menace.
A weapon in your hand often gives a falce feeling of safety.
If you want to stop an attacking bear you have to hit its brain, which is not much bigger than a tennisball.
Try to hit a tennisball moving with 45 kilometres an hour.
If you don´t hit the brain right away the situation will be much worse for both you and the bear.

All your advices are wrong and really shows that you really don´t know anything about weapons expect that they give you a false feeling of safety and in your hands they are very very dangerous.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 08:41 am
@saab,
saab wrote:


Quote:
You have to know the bodylanguage of a bear to know if it is going to attack or not.
That is false, because I do not approach feral bears.
How many times must I say that I am neither a hunter nor a hiker ????
This thread has nothing to do with bears; it has to do with coyotes.

U insist on going on and on about BEARS.






Quote:
A bear on two legs is not attacking.
A provoced bear might attack but as a rule it is feigned attack.
I don 't give a damn. Its none of my business.
This thread is based on a death from coyotes, not bears.







Quote:
If it attacks you can if neccesary shoot an empty menace.
A weapon in your hand often gives a falce feeling of safety.
So, according to u, its best to show FEAR to animals,
instead of "a falce feeling of safety" as u choose to put it ??
Maybe u think its best to turn your back and run from a quadrupedal predator ?
That is suicide.






Quote:
If you want to stop an attacking bear you have to hit its brain,
which is not much bigger than a tennisball.
So, according to u, it does not matter what u shoot him with ??
I think it matters.







Quote:

Try to hit a tennisball moving with 45 kilometres an hour.
I 'll leave that to u.





Quote:
If you don´t hit the brain right away the situation will be
much worse for both you and the bear.
I can 't take your advice seriously; you are a fool.








Quote:

All your advices are wrong and really shows that you really don´t
know anything about weapons expect that they give you a false
feeling of safety and in your hands they are very very dangerous.
Your comments are poorly reasoned, for several different reasons. I remember u from some years ago.
Your hostility to possession of defensive guns prejudices you.
I can 't respect you.





David
saab
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 11:15 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Your comments are poorly reasoned, for several different reasons.

My comments were from hunters´advice how to behave when meeting a bear.
Guess they cannot be all wrong.

We have no coyotes in Sweden but wolfes. No human being has been killed by wolfes in Sweden the last 100 years. They as a rule attack the dogs of hunters.
Wolfes are shy by nature. Still you have to be a good hunter to kill an attacking coyote or wolf or dog.

Yes I am against guns in hands of people like you.
But I am not against guns in the hands of people who really have learned how to handle them, hunters, soldiers, and policemen.
Always Eleven to him
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 12:14 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

Quote:
But actually, if you re-read the post you quoted, I don't see where he said he had experience with dogs preventing coyote attacks.


You're absolutely right, Ticomaya. I apologize. Kuvasz said that his dog saved him from a Rottweiler attack. The average weight of a male Rottweiler is 110 lbs. The average weight of the female is 92 lbs. Throw in that the Rottweiler is bred for strength, and you have an animal that is 1/3 again the size of the coyote (if it's a female). So even though Kuvasz's Aja dog only killed roaming coyotes, she did kill an attacking Rottweiler. If the dog can save a human from an attacking 92 or 110 lb dog, and if the dog can kill a 60 lb (or less) dog-like animal, the dog can kill an attacking 60 lb or less dog-like animal.

I still vote for the large dog for protection over something I need to control with shaking hands and ragged breath to protect myself.
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 12:22 pm
@NickFun,
NickFun wrote:

Do you really think a gun would have helped?


Yes. It would have helped to make David feel safer as the animal chewed out his larynx.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 12:31 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

Yes I am against guns in hands of people like you.
But I am not against guns in the hands of people who really have learned how to handle them, hunters, soldiers, and policemen.


This is a silly comment. You don't agree with Davis so you think he can't handle a gun? That's rather retarded.
 

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