0
   

The Jews.

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 3 Dec, 2003 01:49 am
Well, yeah, the Goya is Saturno devorando a su hijo, and yes, Saturn has absolutely nothing to do with Jewish mythology, anti- or otherwise. Saturn is the Roman equivalent to the Greek's Cronus. That is exactly why Dave Brown chose it upon which to base the Sharon cartoon. Nihm directly quoted Brown,

Quote:
My cartoon was intended as a caricature of a specific person, Sharon, in the guise of a figure from classical myth who, I hoped, couldn't be farther from any Jewish stereotype.


How is the caricature anti-Semitic if it has nothing to do with Semitism?

He also says,

Quote:
I also omitted certain things. I might have drawn Israeli insignia on the tank or helicopter to set the scene. But not only did I have no intention of being anti-Semitic; I had no desire to make an anti-Israel comment. At a time when the Israeli Labour party was offering the choice of a settlement, I sought only to target a man and a party I consider to be actively working against peace.


If anything, he showed a lack of sensitivity to how this would hurt the sensibilities of Jews and Judeophiles seeing as how this portrayal of Sharon would smack of the anti-Semitic blood-libel, especially after its resurgence through the Arab media. This lack of sensitivity is akin to the posting of the black-face site on this very thread. Black-face is extremely derogative and offensive, and some were peeved by it. Was it posted with racist intent?
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Wed 3 Dec, 2003 06:03 am
I missed the black-face post, but strangely, I'm with InfraBlue on the cartoon issue. I actually thought it was very pointed. Sharon is dragging Israel down, and the child-devouring charicature is quite apropos. It's just unfortunate that Brown didn't think about that old stereotype of Jews using Christian babies blood to make their matzoh. Smile To me, that sounds more like a brain fart than actual anti-semitism.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 7 Dec, 2003 06:49 pm
Found another resource on East European Jews - unfortunately its only got TOCs and abstracts online, not the full articles:

East European Jewish Affairs
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Sun 7 Dec, 2003 07:02 pm
hobitbob wrote:
......munching on munchkins......


heh.
0 Replies
 
yeahman
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jan, 2004 11:20 pm
I was reading the Malcolm X autobiography and one part made me think of this topic on a2k so I came back here to post it.
Quote:
My clue to the Jew's question and challenges is that among all other ethnic groups, his expressed thinking, his expressed concerns are the most subjective. And the Jew is usually hypersensative. I mean, you can't even say "Jew" without him accusing you of anti-Semitism.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jan, 2004 09:40 am
Quote:
I mean, you can't even say "Jew" without him accusing you of anti-Semitism.


I have some sympathy with this. Non Jews are often cowed into silence rather than face accusations of anti semitism.

Discussions spiral wildly out of control, from criticism of Ariel Sharon, to nazi sympathiser in a blink of an eye.

Incitement to racial hatred is a crime. And false accusations of criminal intent is also a serious matter. So I don't bother getting involved in these sorts of debates.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jan, 2004 10:07 am
Well, actually I wanted to open a new thread in arts/international politics yesterday - about the relation between politics and arts.

As you can see, I didn't. [ http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=56314 ]
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jan, 2004 12:40 pm
That's a great quote about Nationalism, Walter.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jan, 2004 12:43 pm
And certainly, Dror Feiler is a self-hating Jew.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jan, 2004 07:37 am
Quote:
And certainly, Dror Feiler is a self-hating Jew.



This is typical of the sort of comment that really puts me off getting involved in this type of debate. However at risk of being called an anti semite, I will ask a simple question. How do you know?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jan, 2004 01:17 pm
I was being sarcastic, Steve.

I have never expressed hatred for Jews, but I'm called an anti-Semite for criticizing the Jewish religion.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jan, 2004 01:45 pm
I should add here, starting with ye110man's post, that Malcolm X may not be the most trustworthy source regarding the Jews. The Nation of Islam has been notoriously, blatantly anti-semetic from it's inception, not simply "accused" of it in a kneejerk way. I recall not too long ago Farrakhan putting in print that Jewish doctors were injecting Black babies with AIDS. Also, the Black community in the USA can be equally kneejerk to benign statements or criticism as the Jews, perhaps even more so.
0 Replies
 
yeahman
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jan, 2004 02:12 pm
The book was started while he was still with the Nation of Islam and it was finished after he left. In fact the Nation of Islam got to him (possibly by order of Louis Farrakhan) before it was published. I don't know to what extent the earlier parts of the book, where I got that quote from, was revised to reflect his later views.

Also the quote continues with him saying that he understands why Jews are hypersensitive; they've been persecuted for millennia.

I found him to be very reasonable albeit within the restrictive confines of his religious beliefs.

In his arguements against integration he makes the case that integration proved fatal for the Jews in Germany and that their civil rights could only be protected by a Jewish state, though he seems to be opposed to the idea of making that state at the cost of the Palestinians.

I should also say that he later favored integration though he believed that it could only be accomplished through traditional Islam.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jan, 2004 03:00 pm
Sadly, Malcolm X didn't live long enough to properly formulate his personal philosophy, it seems.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jan, 2004 06:33 pm
Silly fools. Everybody knows Jews are mere figments of our imagination, like the stories we tell our kids to make them eat vegitables.

Incidentally, the autobiography of Malcolm X as dictated to Alex Haley is an unremittingly biased and incompete portrayl of his life which is only usefull for showing us how Malcolm X percieved himself and his underlying motivations.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Tue 20 Jan, 2004 01:14 am
As most autobiographies tend to be.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Tue 20 Jan, 2004 08:02 am
InfraBlue wrote:
As most autobiographies tend to be.

Conveniently skipping over his womanizing ways and numerous affairs, for example, is over-stepping the boundaries of how truthfull an autobiography should be.
0 Replies
 
yeahman
 
  1  
Tue 20 Jan, 2004 08:15 am
Malcolm X's womanizing ways and numerous affairs AFTER his jailhouse conversion? I've never heard of that. Can you provide sources?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 30 Mar, 2004 06:29 pm
IronLionZion wrote:
Conveniently skipping over his womanizing ways and numerous affairs, for example, is over-stepping the boundaries of how truthfull an autobiography should be.


Really? 'S been an odd fourteen-fifteen years since I read Malcolm X's autobiography (a riveting read by the way), and I distinctly remember him being quite frank about his pre-conversion "sinful" says of crime and mayham.

Dunno specifically about women, but I do remember he recounted all the bad things he usta do. Well, as one should, in a "conversion-changed-my-life" kind of story.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 30 Mar, 2004 06:32 pm
Thats not what I came back to this topic for, though.

I came here to post a new link I found:

www.fsumonitor.com

The site for daily news, opinion, and advocacy on Jews and human rights in the former Soviet Union.

A project of UCSJ: Union of Councils for Jews in the Former Soviet Union.


Looks worthwhile!
0 Replies
 
 

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