The Jews.

>>kiss<<

Sofia,

Just don't challenge me on that. I damned well amn't goan be stupid enough to try to equate anti-goyism with anti-semetism.

Anti-goyism generally manifests itself in Jews shunning gentiles. Anti-semetism results in vandalism and sometimes death and violence.

Here are some stats:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hatecm.htm#bias

Crimes against Jews dwarf crimes against all other religions combined in the US.

No challenge.
I think we agree.
And, even if we don't, I'm emotionally pooped.

What about crimes regarding Jewish Dwarves? But again, I digress...however, everyone does indeed have a cause:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~brianfriedkin/abljvd/



Hope this lightens the mood a bit...

Oh no.
Creepy blackface.
A pet peeve.

I'm going to see if I can do Word Association without getting pissed.

Craven, I opened two or three of the links on the Google page you referenced and I can see your reluctance to have to sort through all that <nods>.

From what I read before 'turning off', though, the guy's act seems more one of white racism than of Jewish anti-goyism (he did it "because he hated blacks"). So I dunno what that says about Jewish religion having taught and purveyed anti-goyism/anti-Christianity for twothousand years.

Anyway, on a brighter note:



You should! Its wonderfully interesting. I started reading a month or two ago, Cav, was fascinated, read on through to the advent of WW2 in one go. Then I left it for a long while, and recently read up to the fifties.

I wasnt going to post in your thread until I finished it, but - yes - fascinating - and moving at times and very enjoyable in its dry, down-to-earth wit, too. <smiles>

<nods, smiles, agrees with nimh> Thanks nimh. The link is posted in a few threads, this being the most recent. It is a good read. Now that he's gone, I tend to refer to it for the great stories, and the personal history. He actually had a stock of life stories that he told to his kids, and then later to us, but nothing in the memoirs anyone knew about. These were his personal stories. I suspect that is the reason for some of the 'why am I writing this and are they really going to be interested' digressions. I do believe I am the closest to him in personality of all my grandparents, sadly all passed on. Please, I have no trouble waiting until you are done before posting thoughts in the original thread. Believe me, I know it's a long read for a forum, I helped edit the handwritten manuscript

All I have to show how anti-goyism can lead to discrimination--not infamous acts of genocidal ethnic cleansing, or anything as simplistic as "anti-goy bands of marauding Jews"--is an anecdote.

In Mexico City, a few years after WWII my father had made the acquaintance of an Eastern European Jewish immigrant. He had arrived there penniless and alone with no family, practically with just the shirt on his back. He did know some Jewish friends of the family there, however, and some friends of friends of the family. These acquaintances had fronted him start up money and some merchandise, jewelry, to help him get established there in the city. He quickly became rather successful with the help of these friends. A little later he had met and fell in love with a Catholic Mexican girl, and promptly married her. Not long after his fortunes changed. The friends who had helped him so much had now demanded immediate payment of his debts, and cut off his supply of merchandise. None of these friends would associate with him and his wife. His business foundered. They were completely ostracized. They eventually ended up in the street, and soon thereafter left the city. My father never knew what became of them.

Now, I am not saying this is the norm with Jewish people, nor do I wish to engage in nimh's tit-for-tat game of holocaust haggling. As Sophia has said, "This is disgusting." As I said, the anti-Semites have verily won that game. I don't, however, believe it's just a matter of "sticks and stones," as au would have one think. There are many, many instances like the one I related above. Like de Kere has said, "Anti-goyism generally manifests itself in Jews shunning gentiles." It also manifests itself in Jews shunning Jews who marry gentiles.

Does this hatred amount to holocaustic genocide? That's stupid. Are these examples of hatred? Absolutely. That is the point, nimh.

cav,
Acording to the Jewish Virtual Library, "Maimonides was the first person to write a systematic code of all Jewish law, the Mishneh Torah."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Maimonides.html

http://slate.msn.com/id/2090080
The Slate provides responses and links to a wide variety of papers regarding the anti-Semitic Malaysian comments.

InfraBlue, that statement is true, but the Mishneh Torah is not the same as the Talmud, and is also not accepted as the definitive book of Jewish law, although it is used frequently in certain rulings of religious law. In your earlier post, you implied that Maimonides was the first to codify the Talmud. That is innacurate:

"The Mishneh Torah was written by Rabbi Moses Ben Maimon (Maimonides), and was compiled between 1170-80 CE. Maimonides is often known by the anacronym Rambam. Maimonides reviewed the Halachic discussions of the Talmud and Midrash, and then of the Geonim (600 - 1050 CE). Based on this review of the literature Maimonides attempted to judge what normative law was for all situations. However, the Mishneh Torah does not indicate what sources particular laws are based upon, or where they are derived from.

Because Maimonides did not indicate his sources, in places, it is unclear whether he had overlooked important material, or erred in some way Perhaps for this reason, and also because some of Maimonides' rulings were not acceptable to Ashkenazim (Jews from Northern Europe) the Mishneh Torah did not become the final authoritative code of Jewish Law. It has however, become one of the major sources to use for deciding Halachah."

I should add, the mixed-marriage taboo for both Jews and Catholics thing is just stupid. It can happen on both sides. Personally, I think it is just plain ignorance. If both religions preach love, and then what's up with that? I have to admit, a lot of Jews are tough on their kids to marry Jewish. I didn't, and neither did my brother. My family is pretty understanding though, and can get over their personal beliefs to see the human side of everyone. Maybe I was just born lucky.

Cav
I hate to disagree with you however in the matter of mixed marriages I do. The reason
I believe that mixed marriages were and are frowned upon is the issue of such a marriage. Those children are usually lost to the faith. In fact as you know if the mother is not Jewish than the children are not. The children after all our legacy and the future of Judaism. In this area my experience is first hand. I have two sons both of who are married to gentile girls. Which of course makes my grandchildren non Jews? Although I love my daughter in laws and of course my grandchildren I must admit that I would have preferred that they marry within the faith. Why you guessed it the Grandchildren. My Jewish linage ends at this point. What to me makes it even worse to my mind is that being a Kohan I can literally trace my line back to the tribes of Israel. Does that mean I am anti-Gentile of course not it only means that I am proud of my religious heritage and would like to have seen it perpetuated.

au1929, it's fine, I happen to know that my grandparents would have been happier had I and my brother married Jewish as well. However, we are both modern-thinking kids, and went with our hearts. I don't think that wishing for your children to marry into the faith is wrong, nor would I say it makes you anti-gentile, it is your place to believe. While you would have wished differently for your sons, you didn't force them to follow tradition, because you respected them. Nothing wrong with any of that in my books.

Hey, I wasnt the one who made the equation.

Au pointed to the Catholic Church's part in the thousand years of hate-mongering that led to endemic anti-semitic violence (the Holocaust being merely its ultimate, modernist implementation). You posed a rhetorical equation: what about the hate that Judaism taught?

The equation between the two is silly, and I'm glad you seem to be saying so, too.

Will y'all allow me to be lazy?

I've read many references, in newspaper articles and essays and soforth, about how Jewish culture blossomed in the multicultural freedom of Muslim-era Spain - before the Christians drove out the Muslims, and then all others who didnt fit their narrow zealotism as well. But random references in newspaper articles are just that. Where's an easy place to start reading up on that time in a little more depth, without immediately delving into some classic tome of a history?

Hmm....I'm too tired to delve into it, nimh, but you might start researching the Crusades, especially those that targeted Spain. Just off the top of my head...I can dig up more tomorrow.

nimh,
I didn't state the equation. You inferred the equation. The inferrence is silly.

Where am I equating levels of violence?