Well Damn! Somebody finally SAID IT!!

I am going to jump in for a minute.
Some of you are saying that some, if not most, of the opposition to Obama is racial in makeup.
Some of you are saying that Joe Wilson is a racist for shouting "you lie" at Obama during his speech.

I will be the first to admit that a SMALL PART of the opposition is based on racism.
Only an idiot would deny that.

However, to say that most of it is is total stupidity.
When you say that it is based largely on racism, that negates your own argument, and makes you look silly.
I am of the opinion that people like eoe are the racist ones.
When you see racism in every disagreement people have with Obama, it weakens the definition of racist.

Bob Herbert in today's New York Times;

Republicans have been openly feeding off of race hatred since the days of Dick Nixon. Today’s conservative activists are carrying that banner proudly. What does anybody think is going on when, as Anderson Cooper pointed out on CNN, one of the leaders of the so-called tea party movement, Mark Williams, refers to the president of the United States as an Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug, and a racist in chief.

After all these years of race-baiting and stirring the pot of hatred for political gain, it’s too much to ask the leaders of the Republican Party to step forward and denounce this spreading stain of reprehensible conduct. Republicans are trying to ride that dependable steed of bigotry back to power.

But it’s time for other Americans, of whatever persuasion, to take a stand, to say we’re better than this. They should do it because it’s right. But also because we’ve seen so many times what can happen when this garbage gets out of control.

I don't think that you, or anyone else, is in a position to say that racism is a small part, or a large part of the opposition to Mr. Obama. You just don't know. It is not stupidity to say that most of is, it is only unsubstantiated speculation. As a "white" man who happens to have paid attention all his life, i'd say that casual racism is at the least tolerated, if not actually condoned by the majority of white folks i've ever seen.

EOE is not a racist, in my opinion, nor do i see any reason to imply that she sees racism as the source of every disagreement people have with Obama.

Next time you want to post a rant which is solely based on your opinion, have the courtesy to make it clear that it is your opinion, rather than speaking ex cathedra.

Oh, you mean like when we expand the definition of rape to include any sexual trespass??? And now when we say now someone was raped we have no idea what happened other than one person felt that another did something sexually to them that they should not have?

The hope is that these words will continue to carry their previous emotional weight even after they have been redefined, so as to engineer a desired social change. The project is doomed because it does not recognize reality as humans live it. It is also a stiff form of manipulation, which tends to rub people the wrong way after awhile.

Well, now we've heard from the rape-apologist loon--all we need to complete this thread is for Foofie to explain how the reaction to Mr. Obama is a product of hatred of the Jews.

evidence of the misuse of language is a reasonable line of inquiry. When you deflect into personal attack you indicate that you have no rebuttal to the proposition that language is being used to manipulate individuals.

We all have a stake in language being weakened by the abuse of language. Given the lousy level of discourse in modern society there is a good argument that there is no subject more important. It may be that we can not deal with our problems effectively until after we rehabilitate the English language.

You obviously have no clue how language works. Can you provide an example of a rehabilitated language?
If a language evolves, don't fault it on your inability to deal with problems.

it devolves as well. There is a lot of evidence that modern language is not as useful in its prime mission as it once was, that it has be hijacked who value the progress of their social agenda much more highly than they do language functionality.

Oh, yeah! Lots of evidence..

I'll do with that example of rehabilitated language..

I don't think I said that, but after thinking about it, I do have to admit that given his age and the fact that he's from South Carolina - I probably would be prone to inject my own bias, which would lead me to believe that there is a somewhat greater chance that he has racist or at least RESENTFUL feelings say than a 62 year old man from New York- and that these might lead him to shout such a thing in such a way at our President who happens to be black.

This is probably not fair of me. And I do have to admit that the whole South Carolina angle is important in my bias, because I do remember that they are one of the last states to hold out in terms of continuing to fly the confederate flag over the state house. Maybe he was adamantly opposed to that. Could be - could be that I am doing him a disservice when I think of him and that issue and this issue as related. I would have to know more about him personally.

I don't think eoe is racist. But I can see how she might be led to believe that most whites are racist when people say things like 'the majority of white people another white person has known have tolerated or actively condoned racist thought or behavior.
In my experience that is NOT true. Most whites I have known do NOT actively condone racist behavior.
Tolerate is another issue - that's something I'd have to think more about.
But I'm fully cognizant that everyone has different experiences with different people - different places - different times.
I'd just repeat that I have not found it to be true with the white people I have known that most condone racist thought or behavior.

are you denying the abysmal quality of debate in modern democracies, or are you saying the the primary cause is something other than the debasement of language??

I'll go with the latter, indeed..

your avoidance of debate on the subject is telling...when you feel that you make make a serious defense of your opinion you should come back around, we could test it out.

well you flunk syllogism 101 but that's not all that bad, logic never seemed your strong suit anyway.

Strange assumption you're making here..

You know nothing about my reasons, intents or purposes..

In essence, you can't deny the proposition i advanced, because you offer no rebuttal to the proposition that the majority of white folks i've known tolerate racism. Leaving aside that, of course, you cannot know what my experience of white folks is, you don't on your own behalf deny that a majority of white folks tolerate racism. So, as is typical of you, you've said nothing pertinent on the subject--you've just run your mouth to no discernible purpose.

Well of course I'm no expert, but I've lived in the middle, east, south and west of this country, and have run into racism in every locale. I've watched the Republicans play off of white racism, ever since they successfully sought to lure white racist votes away from the Democrats. That's not to say that all Republicans are consciously racist, just that it is politically expedient for them to tolerate and encourage those who are.

nor can I. I choose to assume that your stonewalling has some reason behind it that does not make you an asshole....I was trying to be nice.

The most bigoted/racist community I've personally encountered was Fall River Mass.

I attended integrated schools throughout my childhood. As an adult, my entire career has been spent in the arts. It is one of the most diverse industries there are. I have been the 'token negro' in more than one advertising department and while I have enjoyed close, satisfying and sometimes conflicting relationships with people of many nationalities and skin color, I also understand and accept clan mentality and the innateness of supporting/protecting/defending ones own. Black, Asian, East Indian, Italian, Polish, Jewish, Irish, etc. That's just reality and I give people alot of leeway because it is such a natural thing. But I draw the line when ethnic and racial pride blinds a person to right and wrong, justice and fairness.

People like Hawkeye, mysterman, etc. (you know who you are and so does everyone else on A2K) play the game of flipping the script. Accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of. It's an old and tired game that gets us nowhere but then again, people like that oftentimes don't want to 'go' anywhere. Since they can't turn back the hands of time, they certainly don't want to move forward. It's much too scary for them. I understand that too. Poor fools. But I'm all about progress so to them I say, either get with the program or get the hell out of the way.