Was Cleopatra Black?

let's see...Egypt is in which continent again?

Err... Africa.

And, let's see, how big is it again?
Big enough to contain a wide variety of racial types?
Hmmm... What do Berbers, Tunisians, Morrocans and, oh yeh!, Egyptians look like again?

And in any case, her family came from Greece. And they interbred almost exclusively to keep themselves pure Macedonian. There's an outside chance her grandmother on her father's side was a local, but since the locals were North African Mediterranean peoples too (light or tanned skin, dark hair and eyes), that would have made no difference to Cleo's being a woman with mediterranean characteristics.

keep hope alive!

And why does this matter? Whether she was black or not?

It doesn't - I think Iamsam is actually one of my 9 year old kids that likes to do things to see how people react. It's entertaining for him.

I find it interesting to get a better picture of what ancients looked like. It doesn't "matter" if a mummy had red hair or black hair but is still interesting to some people.

Yeah I can see that. I can also see regarding the perspective that Cleopatra was considered very beautiful - you could determine a bit what features were considered beautiful at that time.

That's another curiosity I had: whether she was beautiful at all (or even considered beautiful).

Even if it's trivial, it's interesting to get small bits of reality out of the myths.

Well, apparently the story is a staple of Black folklore. For example, the first hit in a Google search for "cleopatra black" is this extensive article Ebony devoted to the question. Here is how they describe how the question matters:


Source

The Ebony article concludes that there's a chance Cleopatra may have had some black ancestors. Here's the core of their argument:



Ebony then proceeds interpret the scarce historical facts in the friendliest way to the "Black Cleopatra" story that they can. But because they're an honest publication, the interpretation is peppered with qualifiers like "may", "quite possible", "it is impossible to answer", and the like.

Given the apparent interest in the "black Cleopatra" story in the Black community, I think it's perfectly alright to point out that it's little more than a myth: There might be some truth to it, but we have no evidence that it actually is.

What credit can you give a site that writes:

Careless editing. Ptolemy was appointed satrap of Egypt after Alexander's death in 323 BC. In 305 BC, he declared himself King Ptolemy I.

Yeh, because it's interesting. Why does it matter if creationism or evolution is right? It doesn't. Neither is going to change my life, or any of our lives in the here and now is it? There are still thousands of posts dedicated to it. If you don't find the question interesting, look for another topic.

I personally find ancient history facinating, and love to pad out the history (and the myths) with as much characterisation of the individuals concerned as possible. When I imagine Mark Anthony and Cleopatra getting jiggy, I want to know that what I imagine is accurate and not Hollywood (or Ebony). I remember reading Plutarch's Lives and loving the stories of little events, little quotidian and painfully human events, that happened in the lives of these historical giants.

There was one that was particularly nice about a fishing trip on the Nile that MA and Cleo went on. He was trying to woo her and showed off by getting a servant to jump into the water from the opposite bank, dive down, and hook ready caught fish onto his line. He did this four or five times, acting the big white hunter and all that. Cleo twigged it and got one of her servants to dive down and attach a gutted and descaled fish to the end of his line. Boy was he red faced when that came up. But I like little stories like that. It makes them seem so human, and, in this case, so modern (and Italian!) in their ways. It adds colour to black and white history pages.

And that's what this question's about, a popular myth I'd like to debunk. But I like debate too. Please feel welcome to defend the notion she was black. Convince me and I'll accept, just as I have on other "controversial" posts I started. I'm here to learn, and, if I may be allowed to be a little presumptive, teach if I can. This post is not about bear-baiting. It's a genuine question. And I am entitled to my opinion on the matter, an opinion I don't feel makes me comparable to a nine year old. Such comparisons are, in fact, immature themselves. Either contribute to the question at hand, or get your heads out of your arses and **** off.

I was told in college that the image on this coin is Cleopatra. Anyone know different? She's hardly a centerfold:



I think I've always known she was Greek. I remember a Bill Cosby sitcom spinoff that stated she was black (this was back in the 80's) and I wanted to write to the producers and correct them, but never got around to it. I briefly lived near Harlem in NYC and would often see a black Cleopatra portrayed on T-shirts or household items like mugs and cheap sculpture. Cleopatra Jones was certainly black and a lot better looking than her namesake:

Oh yeh! I've seen that coin before. But I can't remember what it is that makes them think that might be her. Any ideas?

My. She certainly is a munter though isn't she.

That coin must be someone else. I've seen the photos. She was well fit, if a little pneumatic for today's tastes. I'd take a boat ride on the Nile with her.



You can see she's got sort of dread locks so maybe there's something in those stories. Or perhaps she was a wigga.

omg I wonder what Elizabeth Taylor's bust measurement was when she appeared
in Cleopatra?

36-C apparently.

[img][/img]

More recent discoveries of what we think she looked like are even more promising. I can see why Julius and Mark Anthony had a tent in their togas over her now.