How do I overcome the loss of my Mom when I was already in a depression?

Yer darned straight, you "know" at least me, and can "talk" to me. Use that PM thingie anytime, 'cause I check A2K daily.

I vote you get the stained glass thing! Does it matter much? NO. But the more you can nurture yourself and be kind to yourself (I think) the better off you'll be.

I'm a bit mystified that other folk here have not been as Impressed as I have with your fortitude.

I mean, really, do you Feel Like caring for your stepfather right now? Heck, I wouldn't! Yet you're doing it anyway. It's a great deal more than I could have done right after my own losses. Jeez Loueez, please give yourself LOTS of credit for this.

Ehn (happy sound), I love Michael's too, and we have them here in FL, though not nearby. I'm something of a fiber nut, and love to knit/crochet/embroider etc.

I get all happy just looking at yarn on the Internet. I don't have to buy it, just look at it and drool a little bit. Hobbies like this are joyfully independent of external life events, know what I mean?

Do you like kittens or puppies? Just mentioning, since most animal shelters are ALWAYS looking for temporary foster homes for them, esp now in summer, which is the birthing season for cats and dogs. This would not require any sort of permanent commitment, like adopting a pet, just a temporary set-up until that pet would be adopted by someone else.

Doh, I'm a kitten freak! Honestly, what could be cuter than a little soft snuggly kitten, brand new to this world and just seeking a bit of warm softness and kindness? I like to watch kitten videos on YouTube.

There's a 20-yr-old fellow in Alaska who volunteers at his local Animal Control shelter, taming cats and kittens, and I now consider him a true Friend. He films his kitten/cat encounters and gets all attached to the critters.

Anyway, I always natter on, don't I? My point is there ARE happies out there: A2K, YouTube, www.failblog.org, and tons of others.

These are easy things, small things, and in my opinion this is NOT the time for Big Things. Just wissle ones. A single smile. A chuckle. A good hour outdoors. Planting a few flower seeds in a pot. You know what I mean?

A bit of envy to ya, David... none of these things have ever happened to me, or been reported to me. Would be fun if they were!

Forgot to say: Please expect extreme mood swings, for now. At least I always had them.

I couldn't bear to see that the sky was still blue while Barbara (sister) was dead. How could that BE?

Ten minutes (or less) later, I'd be so very happy to have known and loved her at all, I felt like crying with gratitude.

I think this is all perfectly normal... at least it was for me.

You're allowed to feel whatever you feel, at all times.

I'm not sure if the old post count/membership duration rules apply to the new A2K re PMs, but socal may not have PM capabilities yet.

I agree that a hobby or area of interest is a great idea on filling the days.

socal, my daughter hasn't had to deal with the loss of her mother (heh, I'm still here), but she does suffer from chronic depression. I hear much of her voice in your words. It isn't surprising that your mother's death has thrown you for an emotional loop and, as others have said, there is no right time table for you to start feeling better. On the other hand, clinical depression is real and pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, or throwing yourself into other activities isn't always feasible when you simply don't have the energy to put one foot in front of the other. Don't wait too long to look for outside help. We're all here, and we'll offer whatever insight we can for as long as you want, but getting out of the house for whatever activity/event moves you would be a good thing.

I do hope that you meet with either the grief group or the minister.

I like a quote from Deepak Chopra, M.D.
approximately:
" People believe that we are human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences,
but actually we are spiritual beings with occasional human experiences."

I shoud add that it is the consensus
of people who do have memories of their death experiences,
that there really IS a Judgment Day,
at which you yourself are the judge
of your incarnate experiences,
which u judge by 2 criteria:
1. Love
and
2. learning
and that u render that judgment in the company
of a Being of Light of unconditional love
who counsels u not to be too hard on yourself.



Be patient: in the fullness of time, u will have that experience.

In the meantime, have as much fun as u possibly can.





David

Oh goodie, here's another point I meant to bring up. I'm sorry if this sounds callous, but frankly the many deaths in my immediate family have helped me in many ways.

I think here in the US (don't know about other countries) we have a fear and denial of death which does NOT serve us well, at all.

After all, death is practically the only certain thing in life (insert snide comment about taxes here).

Yet we are so very good at pretending death will not happen to us. This seems a bit unbalanced to me, even crazy.

With "Death watching over your left shoulder," you can easily remember to tell your spouse "I love you so much" in the morning before work (which, of course, I always do).

My own grandmother was a good example of this, er, phenomenon. She was often angry for the most trivial of reasons, sometimes for days on end. Like, to her son: "You didn't call me for 2 days! How I've suffered, knowing you don't care about me at all!"

Son replies: "Mom, I left a message on your answering machine 2 days ago. Did you check your messages?"

Grandma: "Er, no."

Get it?

I work at a public library. Sometimes patrons tell me, "Wow, you seem so Happy!"

I reply, "Well I've realized that after this, I'll be dead forever."

Heck, when ELSE am I going to have fun?

"I'm a bit mystified that other folk here have not been as Impressed as I have with your fortitude."

This made me smile. That kind of reminded me of something my Mom would say. She was so supportive about everything. She always thought everything I did was impressive even when it wasn't. I'm pretty sure I must have had the most supportive Mom on the planet. Not that we didn't argue, we're part Italian so of course we argued. But it was never in a real way. Usually it was about her wanting me to go to the doctors or vice versa. She worried about me ALL the time. She worried about me living in the city and living alone. Worried about me finally finding someone to "take care" of me and so on.

I do like cats. I've always had cats. I had one that was probably 14 years old. When I'm in my normal state of mind, I love cat pics. All the online funny cats pics they have with the captions. Right now I can't get into anything like that. Although I did watch Top Chef Masters on Bravo the other night and actually was able to watch it.

Today was a bad day because we had to go to the bank to close her account. I had to bring her death certificate, which I still won't look at. I was kind of relieved that they let her name stay on a savings account we had together. It's so silly but I'm glad she will still be listed on there. But it was a depressing day because it was one of those times where the finality of it was shoved in my face again.

As far as taking care of my stepdad, I don't feel proud of myself, but I do feel good that he seems to be adjusting and eating well. He literally has no family left. He didn't have children and he has outlived all his family and friends. I couldn't leave him alone. I think my Mom would be happy. The negative is it keeps me housebound in most ways. That's why the internet has become so important to me. There's also a part of me that feels guilty because I keep thinking it should be her I'm taking care of.

Also, the blog I started has turned into a bitchy blog where I vent about things. I'm glad no one is reading it but part of me likes that maybe someone who doesn't know it's mine will come across it accidentally. But hopefully no one in my family.

I'd love to stay in touch and PM you. Thank you

"socal, my daughter hasn't had to deal with the loss of her mother (heh, I'm still here), but she does suffer from chronic depression. I hear much of her voice in your words."

It's hard to say if I'm in a clinical depression or just grieving in my own way. My closest friend said I sounded fine before her death and then afterwards she thinks I am in a depression. But this is the same friend who thought I shouldn't be dwelling in the negative even after just a few days. It's really tough to say because what I'm learning is that people are VERY uncomfortable around someone in my current state of mind. No one wants to talk about my Mom's death for more than a certain time. It reminds them of the deaths they have experienced or makes them fear the future I guess. It depresses them. So I really haven't talked about it (except online) as much as I might need to.

Sometimes I wonder if I didn't fully grieve over my Dad's death 10 years ago. I remember being in the hospital and crying like a baby. I was embarrassed, so I stopped myself from crying. That was a huge mistake. I'm posting this just to tell people that you should never stop yourself from crying because then you almost get clogged or something and it gets stuck inside. The difference between my Dad's death and my Mom's is that I had my Mom for support 10 years ago. I would call her and feel SO GRATEFUL that I could hear her voice. She always made me feel better.

The grief counseling thing is supposed to start tomorrow. I plan on going but I don't know for sure. The church is a born again church (not that there's anything wrong with that) but last time I went there maybe a year ago, they kind of put pressure on people after a certain point. But since this time it would be about grief maybe it won't be that way. I don't know.

You're completely correct about that. People do NOT want to think about it or talk about it (death), at all.

You already know I think this is NOT very good for us; I think that when a being is alive, the only complete and utter guarantee is death. We may as well accept that fact, rather than running away screaming, as we here in the US certainly do.

Should you join that "Grief Group," however (which I think might be a positive thing for you), you'll probably find others who are perfectly willing to talk about death... at length.

There may be other, more secular grief groups in your area, should you wish to avoid any religious pressure at this time (which might be a good idea, in my opinion).

On the other hand, I don't think it will hurt you to try this one "born-again" grief group, at least once.

As for depression vs. grief, I've read more than once that "clinical depression" requires a MUCH longer period of time than you've experienced so far. Six months, at least.

Grief is more debilitating in the early days after the event (and you're Definitely in the early days). Depression can last for a lifetime, if untreated.

To me so far, you sound more grieving than depressed. Depression seems to require thoughts like "My life will never, ever get better than it is today." I haven't heard that from you. (You GO, woman!)

A major depression would also prevent you from caring from your stepfather, as you have been doing all along.

I sound like a therapist here, but I am not, at all. I've just been hospitalized 3 times in my life for "major depression." You learn a lot in such places!

I completely agree that it's better to cry and fret and suffer NOW, right after the event. I prolly already said, "The only way OUT is THROUGH." This means if you don't just go ahead and feel damned sad and miserable now, you Might (no guarantee) feel it later, even years later, when you're not prepared to deal with it.

Your instincts seem very much intact, at least to me:

You know when to cry, to grieve.

You're aware of what others are thinking and feeling.

You know you'll feel better taking care of your stepfather, so you just do it...

And I have NOT heard complaints from you about the burden of caring for him in this difficult time.

If only _I_ could have been so very emotionally smart and reasonable, in my times of grieving!

Sending more admiration your way.

Well! Somebody needs to switch to Diet Pepsi!!!

"Sending more admiration your way."

Thanks BorisKitten. I don't know much about clinical depression or the signs of it so I appreciate what you're saying. My best friend and I had a little argument today because she was basically yelling at me on the phone telling me I need therapy because I mentioned to her I keep staying in bed a lot for the past 4 days. I get up to cook but other than that I feel so drained. So she was yelling at me for not "helping myself" by seeing a counselor and so on. I don't *think* I am in a depression, I *think* I'm grieving. So your input was helpful, thanks.

I just got back from the GriefShare thing. It was interesting. There were about 30 people, all different ages. It was pretty heavy since everyone went around and shared their losses. People were there from all different types of losses from parents to husbands to children to miscarriage. Of course there were many moms and daughters there together, which made me miss my Mom. When I shared I started crying mainly because I felt the need to share that it is her birthday tomorrow. I told them about the plans we had to celebrate. It felt good announcing her birthday for some reason, even though I hate crying in public.

I do think the group will be helpful. The only negative is they do tend to look down on people who aren't "saved" so I noticed many of them expressed sadness that their loved one wasn't saved before they died or was a non-believer. It was in a judgmental way in my eyes so that was a turn off. But I need something right now and this is the only thing available other than individual therapy. So I will see what happens.

Oh another thing I need to watch out for is I was absorbing all the pain of people and then afterwards going up to them hugging them and feeling sad for them. It was kind of overwhelming. I don't know, maybe it's good for me to get outside myself and think about other people. But it's also a little stressful because I tend to want to over-extend myself. Example, there was a woman who lost her 20 year old son in an accidental. Her birthday is this week so I went over to get her number so I could call her. She kind of looked at me funny, like "who the freak are you?" so I just ended up hugging her instead. I think I might be looking for another Mom to worry about like I did my own Mom. So I need to stop that because it's probably not healthy.

I was feeling a little better after the meeting and then I came home to my Mom's house with a dark porch. She always used to leave the light on for me anytime I was coming over after dark. It was kind of symbolic to me that no one is there to turn the light on for me anymore. No one is going to look after me like she did. So I have to do it for myself. I have to find strength in myself if I'm going to get through this. She raised me to be strong and even though I haven't been feeling strong lately, I have to find that inner strength and independence. I do have it in me, I've traveled the world often times by myself. I even drove across the country alone. I've never been afraid of being alone or being independent. I've always liked that. That part of me has been gone for the past 2 weeks. I need to find it again if I want to live through this.

The one thing I'm confused about is this....at the grief share meeting, they showed a film and it said to "lean into your grief" and experience it. You're saying to go "through" it. I've been trying to do that, so that's why even when I feel empty and in pain, I let myself feel it. If that means staying in bed, I stay in bed. Well, my friend has been telling me that it's all wrong and that I shouldn't be staying in bed. She thinks it will lead to a darker path. She seems very nervous about it and she actually stresses me out when I talk to her. She's been like this since even the second day after she died. I don't know if she's just uncomfortable with the topic (since she has said I'm reminding her of her own parents death and she would rather I talk to a counselor than to her) or if she's really concerned about me. I know there aren't right or wrong answers, but I don't really understand how much I'm supposed to "lean into it". If I feel like staying in bed after I cook for my stepdad, shouldn't I just do what my body is telling me to do?

hang in there, you sound better than when you first dropped in...

do you read much?

(like poetry or fiction)

"do you read much?

(like poetry or fiction)"

I tend to only read non-fiction. I like news and all that. I love biographies. It's hard for me to lose myself and focus on other people's creative writing. Probably because I worked in publishing for a long time. Maybe I got jaded on it a little. Right now I'm pretty sure I couldn't sit and read fiction, I can't even watch movies. I guess I could try though.


(Damn, I just noticed how long my posts are usually. Thank you to those of you actually reading through them. I should try and condense my thoughts more I guess.)

Wow, THIRTY people at the Grief-Share thing? Didn't you say you're in a rural area? The astonishing thing about human grief and emotional pain is its universality. Practically every person who's been alive has suffered.

I think your friend is sweet and cares a great deal about you. If I were you, I'd ask the "collective" what they think of your grieving process: Here on A2K, on your blog, and at the Grief Share meetings.

A Google search on Grief vs Depression might also be informative.

Your friend is just one person, with her own opinions and her own grieving process. No 2 people are alike in this process, and you have a right to Be You right now. Besides, she should know that people almost never actually do what you tell them to do!

Personally I think you're doing rather well. Then again I'm no Pro, just another person.

I also think your empathy for others in the group is just fine. I would keep my distance, however. I wouldn't be contacting any of them outside the group, myself, just interacting as much as wanted/needed during the meetings.

I'd be protecting my presently-delicate self from deep emotional involvements with others' problems, you know? You have enough to deal with in your own life right now.

I still think your reports show more grief than depression. If you're sleeping a whole lot in a few months, sure, you might want to seek help.

In the meantime I don't see sleep as all that harmful. Heck, you're not shooting up heroin, cutting yourself, or torturing small animals, so why not go easy on yourself? AND you're reaching out to others with the Grief group as well.

Oh, birthdays and anniversaries of lost ones are simply horrid! Try to be prepared: for me, every year on the anniversary I find myself crabby, depressed, and basically all flaked out. Some years I don't even know why until I check the calendar: Oh right, another anniversary. Blech!

I really like your wordiness, socal. Maybe 'cause I'm wordy too!

Oh, and I wanted to say those little triggers, like the porch light, the stained-glass thing, etc. are perfectly normal. I always had them.

I'd be thinking I was doing a little better, then a tiny thing like that would come up, and Bam! Back in tears.

My own mother lived with my sister up until she (sister) killed herself.

A week or two after sister's death my mom was cleaning the bathroom. She found my dead sister's hair on her hairbrush.

Mom said she curled up right there on the bathroom floor and cried and cried.

This is normal; try to remember that, OK?

As time passes you'll encounter fewer triggers; so keep that in mind too.

The best thing about grieving is, it is NOT permanent.

Agree! And it hasn't even been that long.

"Wow, THIRTY people at the Grief-Share thing? Didn't you say you're in a rural area? The astonishing thing about human grief and emotional pain is its universality. Practically every person who's been alive has suffered."

Yes, I was pretty shocked. The organizer was too. He kept having to go get more chairs. I was thinking there would be maybe 5 or 6 senior citizens because those are the people who are usually involved in church things here. But this group was mostly people under 40 probably. They have some very difficult losses, such as a woman who lost her husband while they were driving with their 3 young kids. Another car hit a deer and then the deer flew into her car killing her husband instantly. The deer was pregnant and it was so awful how she described how there was blood everywhere and all over them. Her kids where under 4 years old at the time and her youngest is an infant with Down's Syndrome. Now she's moving from state to state with her kids not knowing what to do. I felt such empathy for her.

Another girl lost the 3 people she was closest to all at the same time and in freak accidents or suicide. You would NEVER know it looking at her. She was beautifully dressed and very cheerful. I probably looked like a bag lady because I just threw my hair up and wore sloppy clothes. The meeting was definitely a lesson in perspective. Losing a parent is "expected" but losing people to accidents isn't. It doesn't make my grief less painful but it does put it in a different perspective.

Also, there were people there who almost seemed to get buried in grief from decades ago. One elderly lady talked in circles about probably 15 deaths in her family including distant relatives. She seemed so weighted down by it all. It was almost how she identified herself now as someone in permanent grief. That was another lesson about perspective because I don't want to become a chronic, lifelong griever (if that makes sense). My Mom would kick me in my ass if that happened!

I think you're right I need to kind of keep some distance from the group though too. I felt like asking the lady with the 3 kids if she needed free babysitting a couple times a week. But then I decided to just take one session at a time and stop trying to inject myself into people's issues. I think my immediate impulse is to try and think of ways to "save" a situation, which of course I can't do. If someone needs a favor they will ask. I would also like to find a non-religious grief group too but I haven't seen any.

I'm looking forward to when the triggers are happy and not sad. I have to remind myself it's still very new so of course I'll feel bad. It's just so odd how I can go from crying and misery in the morning, and feeling like I want to die and feeling so alone, to feeling that everything will be okay in the evening. It's very strange. This morning was especially awful because it's her birthday. I was stuck in bed again. Then my friend (the one who yells at me ) sent me a package since my birthday is next week also. It was an early b-day gift. It was a hummingbird chime. My Mom loved hummingbirds and she loved chimes, so it made me feel good.

It was cute because in the card she put those decorative foil things that when you open the card they fall all over. My Mom used to do that too. It's funny how someone's nice gesture like that can made a day seem better. So I called her to say thank you and we talked about things. She was less bossy about what I "should be" doing. We talked about how we both might need to do yoga so I went to a gym to check on prices. Then I went to get food for my stepdad since I didn't feel like cooking. So today I felt kind of okay. I did talk to my Mom today and asked her for help so maybe she was helping me. Then I spoke with my Aunt and she reminds me so much of my Mom.

I just wish I could do something about the pain I feel in my heart in the morning. If it wasn't for that I think I could deal with all the sadness and triggers better.

And I like your wordiness too! I appreciate you and everyone here who has tried to help me and give me input.

I think you're very insightful, socal. You know yourself well, and you know your mom well, and you know what you don't want to have happen in the long run. You're in control of yourself more than you realize, I think. I know the pain of your loss seems almost unbearable, but you are bearing it and learning to live with a new reality. It takes time. Don't push yourself too hard. I agree that you sound much more on top of things now than when you first arrived.

I'm also a firm believer that our mothers never really leave us. I still get guidance from my own mother many years later.

I remember my mother 's very sound and competent advice
from many years ago



David