Guns: how much longer will it take ....

@MontereyJack,

I do not share the common progressive opinion that reality is nonsense.

@oralloy,

No, you simplyand falsely claim nonreality is in fact reality. ad infinitum.

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another sick f**k murderer with a gun will rot in jail... GOOD!

Capital Gazette gunman sentenced to life in prison without parole
(WaPo)

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@msolga,

This is an oversimplification. The far left loves for you to make oversimplifications. It makes the job of tyranny easy.

The most sovereign country in the world? Switzerland. Everyone is armed. World War II, Hitler was told that they all had guns and knew how to use them. Between that and the Swiss Alps, he said "**** it" and invased Belgium and France instead.

Speaking of Hitler, guess what happened prior to the Nazi SS taking over? Yup, massive gun control campaign.

Btw, these events? They are staged violence. By that, I don't mean people don't die. They're people the narrative wants to die in states resistant to disarming the public. Big scene about shootings in Las Vegas (btw, country music concert... wild guess as to what political group got shot). Or in states that gun freedom still exists, they widely publicize this stuff.
But here's why it's an oversimplification. In Chicago, NYC, LA, SF, Seattle, way more gun violence but these places have largely banned guns. What's happening?!?

Simple. Criminals don't obey laws. Lemme say this again so it sinks in.

Criminals don't obey laws. I know, shocking, right?

When you introduce tough gun restrictions, you provide incentive to arrest people who only carry guns within their property (i.e. criminalize self-defense). Nevermind that sometimes you get shot in the street or when headed to a liquor store, these people mainly only carry guns inside their homes. In fact, some of these states, in order not to be charged with a crime, there has to be evidence that you tried to run (by that point, you're dead, and the guy took your property and raped your wife).
Meanwhile, criminals don't care about such laws, they'll shoot and rob , and so on. This was the Nazi SS too, only one with guns so they took over. Which brings us to another problem. Government killing ppl.

So in answer to your question... **** you and your outrage, we need even stronger gun rights. If I can walk around town with my rifle on my back, nobody will mess with me (not that I would, I prefer swords).

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@bulmabriefs144,

wild-eyed wacko extreme right-wing conspiracy theory nonsense.

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beautiful...

Alex Jones responsible for damages triggered by
false claims on Sandy Hook shooting, judge rules
(cnn)

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yet another sick f**k murderer with a gun will rot in jail... VERY GOOD!

Gunman in California Synagogue Shooting Is Sentenced to Life in Prison
(nyt)

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@bulmabriefs144,

Quote:

The most sovereign country in the world? Switzerland. Everyone is armed. World War II, Hitler was told that they all had guns and knew how to use them. Between that and the Swiss Alps

Quote:

This is an oversimplification.

Quote:

he said "**** it" and invased Belgium and France instead.

Quote:

This is an oversimplification.

Quote:

(by that point, you're dead, and the guy took your property and raped your wife).

Quote:

This is an oversimplification.

Quote:

When you introduce tough gun restrictions, you provide incentive to arrest people who only carry guns within their property (i.e. criminalize self-defense).

Quote:

This is an oversimplification.

It's fine to argue that something is oversimplified...but quite hypocritical to throw out that criticism when you yourself do the same thing (oversimplify) multiples times in the very same post.

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Toddler with rifle fatally shoots father, police say

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@hightor,

As oralloy would no doubt argue even toddlers have civil liberties too and denying them guns is horribly unconstitutional and he will oppose it with every fiber of his being.

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4 kids dead this week in yet another school shooting, and it doesn't even make this discussion. I can't think of a clearer representation of the disease which is killing the US.

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@Wilso,

Really good rock concert venue right next to that town. I have a lot of good memories there (meaning the concerts, never been to the town).

1 Reply

@Wilso,

The 'interesting' thing about the school shooting phenomenom in the US is virtually none of them are going to go out and commit these crimes without a firearm (there are of course, always exceptions). Regulation (which allows most people to own firearms, usually save criminals, mentally ill persons, and children without supervision) would likely stop most of these shootings. That's not to say it would stop other kinds of shootings in your country (it maybe would even increase the number of shootings for a number of years, with guns being safely stored).

In my view, arguing for freedom from regulation (and virtually every 'right' is regulated) is akin to saying 'school shootings are a price worth paying for the freedom from gun regulation'

I find it bamboozling when a person argues that 'freedom' = the right to carry a gun without regulation. Again, virtually every right is regulated so that the exercise of one perons 'rights/freedoms' don't impose on anothers rights/freedom, and in imposing on the other persons rights - deny the other persons rights/freedoms. Regulation is almost always necessary to this. This is no different with gun rights.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Really good rock concert venue right next to that town. I have a lot of good memories there (meaning the concerts, never been to the town).

Wow, a person mentions four kids shot up at school by another kid and you talk about your good times at a rock concert venue. If that doesn't show your disconnect, I don't know what does.

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@Mame,

The rock concert venue is right there in that tiny little suburb.

It is an amazing concert venue. Certainly the best in the entire state of Michigan.

It is among the foremost in the entire nation, although I'm sure that there are a few others of similar quality. I couldn't name them though.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

What makes the venue so great is the way the seats rise right in front of the stage.

Concerts in arenas or in open fields have a big flat area right in front of the stage. In those venues, if you want to be elevated to see over the people in front of you, those seats are either off to the side or way in the back.

But at Pine Knob (now renamed after some evil corporation, boo!) you can be both close to the front of the stage and elevated to see over the people in front of you.

Here is a picture of the concert venue on the cover of a 1974 record by Joni Mitchell. The back cover in particular shows what I mean by the seats rising directly in front of the stage.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71J2-pJsiuL._SL1000_.jpg

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71l8O9ajV2L._SL1000_.jpg

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@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

The 'interesting' thing about the school shooting phenomenom in the US is virtually none of them are going to go out and commit these crimes without a firearm (there are of course, always exceptions).

People who are bent on committing massacres will always find a way to do it.

vikorr wrote:

Regulation (which allows most people to own firearms, usually save criminals, mentally ill persons, and children without supervision) would likely stop most of these shootings. That's not to say it would stop other kinds of shootings in your country (it maybe would even increase the number of shootings for a number of years, with guns being safely stored).

We already have the regulation that you describe. Clearly it is not stopping anything.

The regulation that is your secret agenda is an attempt to ban pistol grips for no reason, and an attempt to prevent people from carrying guns in public.

Preventing you from banning pistol grips does not cause any massacres. Preventing you from stopping people from carrying guns in public could actually allow those people to then stop a massacre.

vikorr wrote:

In my view, arguing for freedom from regulation (and virtually every 'right' is regulated) is akin to saying 'school shootings are a price worth paying for the freedom from gun regulation'

I find it bamboozling when a person argues that 'freedom' = the right to carry a gun without regulation. Again, virtually every right is regulated. All rights are regulated so that peoples 'freedoms' don't impose on others freedom, and deny the other persons rights (ie. freedoms). This is no different with gun rights.

The only regulations that people are asserting freedom from are these silly attempts to ban pistol grips for no reason and these attempts to prevent people from carrying guns in public. That is hardly an absence of regulation.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

People who are bent on committing massacres will always find a way to do it.

I note you avoid the specific subject of school shootings, which is all I commented on...to try and make it about broader massacres.

For example - if underage persons were not allowed to buy guns, and parents kept the guns in a gun safe where schoolkids couldn't access them, then those kids wouldn't have easy access to said guns, which means:
- time would pass before they got a hold of a firearm (giving time for things to change, and therefore perhaps never happen)
- many would not have the connects to get an illegal firearm (and therefore may never commit the action)
- if they did start asking, again as many won't have the connects - it increases the likelihood of authorities intervening
- etc
- all of these reducing the likelihood of schoolyard massacres occurring. If someone was 100% dedicated, yep they are unlikely to be stopped. Most are unskilled cowards with little experience to pull this off except they have easy access to guns (there's a reason firearms are the weapon of choice for massacres).

Quote:

We already have the regulation that you describe

I only described the utmost basics.

Quote:

The regulation that is your secret agenda is an attempt to ban pistol grips for no reason.

Paranoia much? I see no issue with having pistol grips. It seems utterly meaningless in the wider scheme of things. It's a grip. So what?

1 Reply

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

For example - if underage persons were not allowed to buy guns, and parents kept the guns in a gun safe where schoolkids couldn't access them, then those kids wouldn't have easy access to said guns, which means:
- time would pass before they got a hold of a firearm (giving time for things to change, and therefore perhaps never happen)
- many would not have the connects to get an illegal firearm (and therefore may never commit the action)
- if they did start asking, again as many won't have the connects - it increases the likelihood of authorities intervening
- etc
- all of these reducing the likelihood of schoolyard massacres occurring. If someone was 100% dedicated, yep they are unlikely to be stopped. Most are unskilled cowards with little experience to pull this off except they have easy access to guns (there's a reason firearms are the weapon of choice for massacres).

I wouldn't have had much trouble getting an illegal gun if I had wanted to when I was in school.

But I'm also generally OK with the concept of safe storage laws.

Although I do oppose all new gun legislation until progressives stop trying to violate people's civil liberties and pay compensation for their past violations of civil liberties.

vikorr wrote:

I see no issue with having pistol grips. It seems utterly meaningless in the wider scheme of things. It's a grip. So what?

The left doesn't pursue gun control because they care about saving lives. They pursue gun control because they enjoy violating people's civil liberties.

Therefore they ignore measures that might plausibly save lives and instead try to outlaw pistol grips for no reason.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Generally speaking, as I understand it, all your States have different regulations regarding how freely available firearms are. Given you have 50 States and porous borders, that makes it very easy to possess illegal firearms. As far as I can tell, regulation in such a situation is only effective if largely uniform...and there was effective national border control (which would itself be difficult). If and once that was achieved then there would still be a lag period because of all the currently existing illegal firearms in existence.

As I said, the regulation I mentioned was the utterly basic variety of regulation.

1 Reply

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

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