57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 01:14 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
I was not using a slippery slope argument.


Actually, you are using a slippery slope argument.


Of all my objections to various proposals and laws, I can think of only one objection to one proposal that might even be close to such an argument, but even that one is not really a good match.

Most of my objections to various proposals and laws are nothing whatsoever like a slippery slope argument.


Really? You have forgotten your argument that registration will lead to confiscation?


No, I remember it. That is the one I mentioned that might even be close. But it is only one of a number of reasons I've given for opposing only one of a number of gun control proposals.

Anyway, there are some real-world examples of governments first requiring guns to be registered, and then following up with a gun ban. In particular, I can think of assault weapons in New York City, assault weapons in California, and most types of guns in the more populated parts of Australia. All three were cases where guns were first required to be registered. People poured scorn on those who said that confiscation would soon follow. And then the governments banned the guns and used those registration lists to force compliance with their bans (at least for those who were foolish enough to register their guns).

And unconstitutional confiscation is not the only mischief the government can achieve with registration lists. Note the recent case in the suburbs north of New York City where a Freedom Hater publication maliciously exposed the names and addresses of all local gun owners so thieves would try to steal their guns. And when people complained, the left piously proclaimed that making this information available was in the public interest.

Since I can point to actual concrete cases showing that gun registration information in the hands of the government gets badly abused, my position here is not like a typical slippery slope argument that just assumes a progression without good reason.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 01:48 am
@Region Philbis,
Region Philbis wrote:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/388634_500983436633863_228288586_n.jpg


I suggest that next time you guys don't try to violate the Constitution, and that you try talking to the NRA instead of attacking and insulting them.

But given that this current round has eradicated every bit of political capital that Obama gained from his reelection, thereby eliminating any possibility of him furthering his domestic agenda (immigration reform is an exception only because the Republicans want it too), it'll probably be a very very long time before anyone tries again.

This is actually likely to be what is going to win the White House back for the Republicans in 2016. With Obama's political capital already gone, he's going to have a pretty stagnant second term now, and the voters will be more than ready to make a change when election time rolls back around.

Now we just need to hope the five conservative Supreme Court justices last through the end of his term, so we can keep getting rulings in favor of the Second Amendment.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 06:20 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:


Since I can point to actual concrete cases showing that gun registration information in the hands of the government gets badly abused, my position here is not like a typical slippery slope argument that just assumes a progression without good reason.



Yes, gun registration leads to government confiscation and we should never
forget what Obama said: “I don’t believe people should be able to own guns.”

America can't let liberalism take over. It doesn't work in Europe and it won't work here.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 07:06 am
@oralloy,
So now you are attempting justify the slippery slope argument you claimed you didn't make but then admitted might be one.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 07:11 am
@oralloy,
By the way oralloy, I would love to see evidence of New York and California confiscating guns.

Perhaps you are confused about the meaning of the word "confiscation." When have New York and California taken away guns from the general population after they were registered?
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 07:44 am


That dumb ass Obama really doesn't care about the children because
he only wants to make it a little harder for kids to get gunned down...
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 08:08 am


Maybe this country should work on making it a lot harder
for people like Obama, Pelosi and Reid to be elected to office.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 05:38 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
So now you are attempting justify the slippery slope argument you claimed you didn't make but then admitted might be one.


Well, I did justify my statement.

No slippery slope argument though. I have concrete examples of severe government abuse of gun registration data when people are foolish enough to register their guns.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 05:39 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Anyway, there are some real-world examples of governments first requiring guns to be registered, and then following up with a gun ban. In particular, I can think of assault weapons in New York City, assault weapons in California, and most types of guns in the more populated parts of Australia. All three were cases where guns were first required to be registered. People poured scorn on those who said that confiscation would soon follow. And then the governments banned the guns and used those registration lists to force compliance with their bans (at least for those who were foolish enough to register their guns).


By the way oralloy, I would love to see evidence of New York and California confiscating guns.


Here is a page that accurately summarizes what New York City did:
http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-34.html

Here is a link to a page from when California did it:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/contracosta/FaxAlerts/sksalert.shtml



parados wrote:
Perhaps you are confused about the meaning of the word "confiscation."


No. No confusion.



parados wrote:
When have New York and California taken away guns from the general population after they were registered?


New York City did it in 1991.

California did it in 1999.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 09:38 am


A form of gun CONFISCATION has begun in the state of NY
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:17 am
it will be interesting to see the wording on "the deal"....it appears that so long as the gun sale happens one day after the gun show officailly ends then no background check is needed. easy-peasy.

I said that a nothing bill will be passed so that Washington can claim that the did something...this appears to be ready.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:32 am
@H2O MAN,


Actually that is just the tip of the iceberg.

People haven't realized it yet, but one of Obama's "23 executive orders" says that it is illegal for people to own a gun if they receive a disability check from the government, if their disability prevents them from handling their own finances.

That's one of the reasons why universal background checks need to be opposed. The background check system is no longer being used just to prevent criminals from having guns. It is being now being used to violate the rights of law-abiding citizens. That means that we need to ensure that there is a clear path for people to always be able to buy guns without being subjected to any background checks.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:32 am
@hawkeye10,
i love the Obama sniveling about "the will of the people".....of course he did not use that argument with TARP or ObamaCare, he being a very fair weather friend of that principle.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:48 am
@oralloy,
That's funny oralloy.
So guns are confiscated when the owners move them to a location outside the city? What kind of reality do you live in?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:52 am
@oralloy,
Your California link states this oralloy

Quote:
Fixed 10-round magazine SKS rifles

If you own one of the above models, all you need to do to comply with the law is remove the aftermarket detachable magazine and reinstall the original 10-round fixed magazine.

Neither instance in NY or California did the government confiscate all registered guns. In fact there was no forced confiscation at all.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:52 am
@hawkeye10,
Obama...the guy who constantly stiff arms the Washington press corps with his "screw the people" attitude.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:53 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
it will be interesting to see the wording on "the deal"....it appears that so long as the gun sale happens one day after the gun show officailly ends then no background check is needed. easy-peasy.

I said that a nothing bill will be passed so that Washington can claim that the did something...this appears to be ready.


Even if it is possible to do that, this bill is still unacceptable, and must be fought at all costs.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 11:00 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
That's funny oralloy.
So guns are confiscated when the owners move them to a location outside the city?


Yes. The fact that it might be possible to avoid confiscation by fleeing the jurisdiction does not change the reality that the jurisdiction is confiscating guns.



parados wrote:
What kind of reality do you live in?


The reality we all live in. The reality where most Democrats hate the Constitution and will do every thing they can to violate people's rights.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 11:01 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Even if it is possible to do that, this bill is still unacceptable, and must be fought at all costs.
it is a ploy....give a foot when 2 yards are required for a first down, then act all pissed off. if I am right this deal will change very little about gun culture (or the ability of whack jobs to get guns)...it certainly will not do what Obama said he set out to do....IE save the babies.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 11:03 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Neither instance in NY or California did the government confiscate all registered guns.


Irrelevant. They still confiscated some guns that they had tricked law-abiding people into registering by giving them a false promise that no such confiscation would follow.



parados wrote:
In fact there was no forced confiscation at all.


Yes there was.
0 Replies
 
 

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