Guns: how much longer will it take ....

@MontereyJack,

You're naïve if you think that that you can stop murders by banning assault style rifles. More than twice as many people were killed in 2018 by peoples' bare hands and feet than with rifles. And more than ten times as many people were killed by knives than were killed by rifles. But you go ahead and bark up the tree you were cued to bark up.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

Quote:

tyur post is sheer lunacy.

No. Characterizing proven facts as sheer lunacy is sheer lunacy.

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Another fail for you. Those cites are about banning sorts of WEAPONS, not sbout bnning GRIPS.

That's sophistry. "Banning a weapon whenever it has a pistol grip on it" is "banning pistol grips on that weapon."

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Oralloy's claims that it's about baning harmless pistol grips rather than the weapons they're on has always been silly and remains so.

There is nothing silly about pointing out that "banning pistol grips on semi-auto rifles" is "banning pistol grips on semi-auto rifles".

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Yes, it does, but it's not because it has a pistol grip that NY state bans it.

Wrong again. They ban guns specifically because those guns have a pistol grip on them.

MontereyJack wrote:

They ban assault style weapons which may or MAY NOT have a pistol grip,

Wrong again. That law bans guns specifically for having a pistol grip on them.

MontereyJack wrote:

and the courts have let those bans stand

The fact that the courts have let progressives get away with violating people's civil liberties for fun does not mean I'm going to let them get away with it.

I oppose all new gun laws, even if I have no objection to them and they would save lives, until progressives have stopped violating people's civil liberties for fun, and have compensated all of their victims.

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Yes, I do. I also know when Marco Rubio hade a town hall and, thinking to throw shade on a proposed ban said to the audience, you know that proposed ban could be interpreted to mean banning all semi-auto weapons, don't you. The crowd vociferously applauded the idea. We know, and yeah, banning all semi auto weapons would prove wildly popular.

That progressives like the idea of violating people's civil liberties is no surprise to anyone.

MontereyJack wrote:

AR15 clones are apparently the most popular weapons sales for the last several years. They also are becoming the weapon of choice for mass shotings. Banning them is therefore a good way to start in trying to reduce gun violence.

How would banning them do anything to reduce gun violence?

You aren't trying to reduce gun violence. All you care about is the fun that you have when you violate people's civil liberties.

MontereyJack wrote:

Personally, I don't think it's enough, but I would be willng to start small and see what happens.

The only thing that would happen is, you would violate people's civil liberties.

MontereyJack wrote:

Ban large magazines too, of course.

No.

MontereyJack wrote:

Oralloy makes the case that semi auto guns are't signifivantly more deadly than lever action or pump action guns. I think he's wrong in that thyey are somewhat faster firing

I'm not wrong. You have to pause and re-aim the gun for each shot, at least if you want to hit your target.

MontereyJack wrote:

but if he wants inadvertently to make the case for banning lever action and pump guns too, I'll go along with that.

No such case can be made. Neither semi-autos, nor lever-actions, nor pump-actions are particularly dangerous if there is not a high-capacity magazine inserted into them.

MontereyJack wrote:

Point being, gun murders are at unacceptable levels and the country demands action.

Too bad for the country. I will not support any new gun control laws until progressives stop violating people's civil liberties for fun, and have compensated all of their victims.

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Again, do SOMETHING. STart small. If that doesn't work, get more intensive.

Not when that "something" is not designed to save any lives, and is only designed to violate people's civil liberties for fun.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Fine. Let's ban all semi-auto weapons. Fine with me.

No. We are not going to allow progressives to violate our civil liberties for fun.

MontereyJack wrote:

Remember you're the one who's making the case for that.

He did no such thing.

MontereyJack wrote:

I'm willng to start smaller,

Your "small" civil liberties violation is unacceptable. Moving to an even larger civil liberties violation does not make it any more acceptable.

MontereyJack wrote:

but since you're proving, again, that they're a large factor in gun violence,

No such proof has been offered. No such proof exists to be offered. Semi-auto weapons are just ordinary guns if a large magazine has not been inserted into them.

MontereyJack wrote:

ban all of them.

No. We will not allow progressives to violate our civil liberties for fun.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Nice of you to join the nothing can change crowd. I don't accept that.

These efforts to violate people's civil liberties for fun are not designed to change anything. All they are designed to do is violate people's civil liberties.

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

your post is sheer lunacy.

Hardly. Your failure to provide any other motivation for outlawing pistol grips proves that the only motivation is the joy that progressives get from violating people's civil liberties.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

It is sheer luncacy because no one has ever been trying to outlaw pistol grips. that has always been sheer fantasy on your part. The motivation is to outlaw assault style weapons. And the justification for that is the increasingly prominent role they are playing in the fatal violations of people's civil rights caused by gun violence. Since you totally fail to realize that, your contentions have no role in reality .
all you have ever done is try to create an alternate reality and live in that. You keep trying to make that the reality.. It isn't. The rest of the world does not live in your fantasy.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

You can say no all you want. As long as people are murdered from gun violence, you will be ignored.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

We WILL put an end to the rampant gun violence. It is unacceptable. Do not think that if the bans already in place and seemingly acceptable as constitutional by the courts do not stem gun violence, that the country will stop at assault-style weapons bans. We won't. The initial step is to break the power of the gun lobby and their blood money by voting blue in 2020 and taking back Congress and the presidency by the forces of sanity.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

It is sheer luncacy because no one has ever been trying to outlaw pistol grips. that has always been sheer fantasy on your part.

Here is a post where you cheered for a statute that outlaws pistol grips on semi-auto rifles:

http://able2know.org/topic/203766-209#post-5227079

MontereyJack wrote:

The motivation is to outlaw assault style weapons.

What you are mislabeling as an assault style weapon is just an ordinary hunting rifle with a pistol grip attached to it.

MontereyJack wrote:

And the justification for that is the increasingly prominent role they are playing in the fatal violations of people's civil rights caused by gun violence.

No such justification. Pistol grips do not play any role whatsoever in any fatalities.

MontereyJack wrote:

Since you totally fail to realize that, your contentions have no role in reality.
all you have ever done is try to create an alternate reality and live in that. You keep trying to make that the reality.. It isn't. The rest of the world does not live in your fantasy.

That is incorrect. Everything in my posts accurately reflects the real world.

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

You can say no all you want. As long as people are murdered from gun violence, you will be ignored.

You wish.

Here's a dose of reality for you:

passed by House, ignored by Senate

Bipartisan Background Checks Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr8

Enhanced Background Checks Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1112

Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1585

passed out of committee, NOT passed by either House or Senate

Keep Americans Safe Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1186

Extreme Risk Protection Order Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1236

Disarm Hate Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr2708

not even passed out of committee

Assault Weapons Ban
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1296

Meanwhile, on the whiny brat front:

http://images2.imgbox.com/e0/42/4oZ8Jstr_o.jpg

http://twitter.com/DineshDSouza/status/966078572321562625

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2018/02/20/USATODAY/USATODAY/636547353091154050-04.JPG

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

We WILL put an end to the rampant gun violence.

No you won't. Not without first making peace with moderates like me.

MontereyJack wrote:

It is unacceptable.

Too bad. No soup for you!

MontereyJack wrote:

Do not think that if the bans already in place and seemingly acceptable as constitutional by the courts do not stem gun violence, that the country will stop at assault-style weapons bans. We won't.

You mean the ban that you can't even get passed out of committee in the Democratically controlled House?

MontereyJack wrote:

The initial step is to break the power of the gun lobby and their blood money by voting blue in 2020

That will not break our power. The only thing that could break our power would be if you abolished democracy.

MontereyJack wrote:

and taking back Congress and the presidency by the forces of sanity.

Even if the Democrats somehow managed to achieve control over the House, control over the White House, and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate all at the same time, a quick look at how little they've gotten passed in the Democratically-controlled House this year should give you a heads up on how little you will actually be able to get passed into law.

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@MontereyJack,

Quote:

all you have ever done is try to create an alternate reality and live in that. You keep trying to make that the reality.. It isn't. The rest of the world does not live in your fantasy.

I provided you with statistical facts and actual numbers to show that your point is invalid. However, in your alternate reality, that information does not exist, though in the real world, it does.

Quote:

The motivation is to outlaw assault style weapons

Wrong! The motivation is to outlaw style.

2 Replies

@Glennn,

If you check back you will see that was addressed to oralloy not you. He has different fixations. But my points are valid. As aAR 15ish rifles become .more numerous and get more coverage they are becoming rhe wannabe murderers weapon of choice no matter what happened in years pasr. However i assure you i have no compunctions about calling for bans on all kinds of semi auto weapons if that will make you happy. Whatever works.

2 Replies

@Glennn,

Im not sure why you think banning assault style weapons is different than banning a style i.e. wtf is your point?

2 Replies

@MontereyJack,

His point is that you don't know what you are talking about.

0 Replies

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

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