Guns: how much longer will it take ....

If your efforts to outlaw pistol grips on semi-auto rifles is for any reason other than the joy that you get from violating people's civil liberties, then what is your real reason for trying to outlaw pistol grips on semi-auto rifles?



Since you are trying to outlaw pistol grips on semi-auto rifles, and are so desperate to do so that you will sacrifice all meaningful gun control in your pursuit of that goal, it is reasonable for me to point out this fact in discussions where it is relevant.

Well what about it, 'Jack? Do you want to ban semiautomatic rifles because they have a pistol grip?

Another fail for you. Those cites are about banning sorts of WEAPONS, not sbout bnning GRIPS. Your claims that it's about bning harmless pistol grips rather than the weapons they're on has always been silly and remains so.

Another fail for you. Those cites are about banning sorts of WEAPONS, not sbout bnning GRIPS. Oralloy's claims that it's about baning harmless pistol grips rather than the weapons they're on has always been silly and remains so.

So it's not about pistol grips, but simply the kind of weapon? Then tell me whether or not the AR-15 falls into the category you're referring to.

Yes, it does, but it's not because it has a pistol grip that NY state bans it. They ban assault style weapons which may or MAY NOT have a pistol grip, and the courts have let those bans stand

No. I'm asking you why it should be banned. I'm not asking you to parrot the thoughts of others. Is it the word "assault" that's behind your fear? You do know the difference between an actual assault weapon and an assault "style" weapon, don't you?

Yes, I do. I also know when Marco Rubio hade a town hall and, thinking to throw shade on a proposed ban said to the audience, you know that proposed ban could be interpreted to mean banning all semi-auto weapons, don't you. The crowd vociferously applauded the idea. We know, and yeah, banning all semi auto weapons would prove wildly popular. AR15 clones are apparently the most popular weapons sales for the last several years. They also are becoming the weapon of choice for mass shotings. Banning them is therefore a good way to start in trying to reduce gun violence. Personally, I don't think it's enough, but I would be willng to start small and see what happens. Ban large magazines too, of course. Oralloy makes the case that semi auto guns are't signifivantly more deadly than lever action or pump action guns. I think he's wrong in that thyey are somewhat faster firing but if he wants inadvertently to make the case for banning lever action and pump guns too, I'll go along with that. Point being, gun murders are at unacceptable levels and the country demands action.

First of all, you've decided to use the word "clone" instead of "style." You're tying to create a similarity that isn't there. Clone means identical. But in this case, it doesn't fit. The AR-15 we're discussing shares only the style of the actual assault weapon.

Second of all, this would be the time to cite something from statistics to support your claim that the AR-15 is becoming the weapon of choice for mass shootings. This should be interesting since the facts don't support your claim. So how about those statistics?

But you're going after a rifle when the fact is that there were fewer rifles used in cases of homicide in 2018 than in the year before. That number would be 297. On the other hand, there were 6603 homicides committed with handguns. So why are you illogically focusing on rifles?

I was using "clone to describe the various versions of AR-15s, not assault weapons. try reading for a change. And the weapons cited in the last couple years have been largely assault-style weapons. I'm fyuly aware over quite a few years semi-suto handguns figured largely, however recently it's been AR-15s most of the time.Again, do SOMETHING. STart small. If that doesn't work, get more intensive.

Las Vegas: Twenty-two semi-automatic rifles (58 killed).
San Francisco UPS shooting: two pistols (3 killed).
Orange County, Florida: pistol (5 killed).
Fort Lauderdale, Florida: pistol (5 killed).
Burlington, Washington: Semi-automatic rifle (5 killed).
Orlando, Florida: Sig Sauer semi-automatic rifle and pistol (49 killed).
San Bernardino, California: Two semi-automatic rifles and two pistols (14 killed.
Colorado Springs, Colorado: Semi-automatic rifle (3 killed).
Umpqua Community College: Five pistols (9 killed.
Chattanooga, Tennessee: Semi-automatic rifle, pistol, and shotgun (5 killed).
Charleston, South Carolina: Pistol (9 killed).
Isla Vista, California: Three pistols and two knives (6 killed).
Fort Hood, Texas: Two pistols (3 killed).
Washington, D.C.: Shotgun and pistol (12 killed).
Santa Monica, California: Semi-automatic rifle and pistol (5 killed).
Newtown, Connecticut: Semi-automatic rifle and pistol (27 killed).
Brookfield, Wisconsin: Pistol (3 killed).
Minneapolis, Minnesota: Pistol (6 killed).
Oak Creek, Wisconsin: Pistol (6 killed).
Aurora, Colorado: Semi-automatic rifle and pistol (12 killed).
Oakland, California: Pistol (7 killed).
Seal Beach, California: Three pistols (8 killed.
Tuscon, Arizona: Pistol (6 killed).
Manchester, Connecticut: Pistol (8 killed).
Huntsville, Alabama: Pistol (3 killed).
Fort Hood, Texas: Pistol (13 killed).
Binghamton, New York: Two pistols (13 killed).
Dekalb, Illinois: One shotgun and three pistols (5 killed).
Omaho, Nebraska: Semi-automatic rifle (8 killed).
Blacksburg, Virginia: Two pistols (32 killed).
Salt Lake City, Utah: One shotgun and one pistol (5 killed).
Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania: One shotgun, one pistol, and one bolt-action rifle (5 killed).
Golita, California: Pistol (6 killed).
Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minnesota: One shotgun and two pistols (9 killed).
Meridian Mississippi: One shotgun and one semi-automatic rifle (5 killed).
Wakefield, Massachusetts: Semi-automatic rifle, shotgun, and pistol (7 killed).
Honolulu, Hawaii: Pistol (7 killed).
Fort Worth, Texas: Two pistols (7 killed).
Atlanta, Georgia: Four pistols and one hammer (9 killed).
Columbine, Colorado: One semi-automatic rifle and one shotgun (13 killed).
Jonesboro, Arkansas: Three semi-automatic rifles (5 killed).
Garden City, New York: Pistol (6 killed).
San Francisco, California: Three pistols (8 killed).
Olivehurst, California: One shotgun and one .22 rifle (4 killed).
Iowa City, Iowa: Pistol (4 killed).
Killeen, Texas: Two pistols (22 killed).
Jacksonville, Florida: One semi-automatic rifle and one pistol (10 killed).
Stockton, California: One semi-automatic rifle and one pistol (5 killed).
Edmon, Oklahoma: Three pistols (14 killed).
San Ysidro, California: One pistol, one semi-automatic rifle, and one shotgun (21 killed).
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Of those 50 incidents, 18 involved semiautomatic rifles. Of those 18 incidents, six resulted in more than ten deaths. Of the incident involving handguns, six resulted in more than ten deaths.

Are you coming to terms with those statistics yet?

But we've just established that handguns are used in homicides 30 times more than rifles. So why on earth wouldn't you be focusing on handguns?

Fine. Let's ban all semi-auto weapons. Fine with me. Remember you're the one who's making the case for that. I'm willng to start smaller, but since you're proving, again, that they 're a large factor in gunviolence, ban all of them.

Oh good. Thanks for putting the actual statistics in terms that no one can deny. It adds credence to the statistical facts my list of mass shootings show.

I was just pointing out the inconsistency of your reasoning when it comes to what you should be wanting to ban. Not that that's going to happen. You want to bubble-wrap society, but that's not going to happen no matter how much you try to demonize semiautomatic rifles.

Always happy to oblige.

Nice of you to join the nothing can change crowd. I don't accept that.

tyur post is sheer lunacy.