57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2018 02:47 pm
@Baldimo,
Make the guns look like an assault weapon and some lunatic will use it to take out as many people as possible while he goes out in a Blaze Of Glory. But you don't get that, even though you see it happening again and again.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2018 03:20 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
Make the guns look like an assault weapon and some lunatic will use it to take out as many people as possible while he goes out in a Blaze Of Glory.

The gun makes no difference as has been proven in plenty of mass shooting events. A shotgun and a pistol in TX, a pistol in AZ with the Gabby Giffords shooting, VA Tech was handguns. That's the point that you are missing, you are going for what you think are easy pickings because most people do not understand the difference between actions on guns. You use scary language and usually untrue facts to push a gun grabbing narrative. People are the issue, not the weapon.

The 2013 CDC study on gun violence, showed that there were between 500,000 and 2.5 million uses of gun for self-defense purposes. Should I use Center for Disease Control, or will that sound like I have experience in the disease research field?

Quote:
But you don't get that, even though you see it happening again and again.

I get what is happening, I'm not willing to blame the gun for the actions of mental disturbed people. You want to get rid of guns which will not stop the people. As I have shown above, if they don't have access to a semi-auto rife, they will use what they can get their hands on, that includes homemade bombs. The only solution would be to rid the US of every gun, do you really think that is feasible? If you thought deporting 11 million illegal immigrants was going to be impossible, imagine rounding up over 350 million guns... or stopping someone from making one at home.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2018 04:26 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Make the guns look like an assault weapon and some lunatic will use it to take out as many people as possible while he goes out in a Blaze Of Glory. But you don't get that, even though you see it happening again and again.
Their attack will be no worse than it would be if their gun was not an assault weapon.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 11:23 pm
@oralloy,
A semiauto assault weapon is the deadliest gun next to an automatic assault weapon. So the deranged assailant will not have the firepower that he now can have.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:37 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
A semiauto assault weapon is the deadliest gun next to an automatic assault weapon.
The "assault features" have no impact on deadliness in either case.

Blickers wrote:
So the deranged assailant will not have the firepower that he now can have.
That is incorrect. Banning pistol grips will not reduce deadliness in any way.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2018 01:02 am
@oralloy,
Semiautomatic action in a powerful rifle designed for use as an assault weapon is too much power for lunatics to have.

And the NRA has done its best to see that as many lunatics can get their hands on these as possible.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2018 01:16 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Semiautomatic action in a powerful rifle designed for use as an assault weapon is too much power for lunatics to have.
That is incorrect. They are just ordinary rifles and there is no justification for banning them.

Blickers wrote:
And the NRA has done its best to see that as many lunatics can get their hands on these as possible.
If there is no justification for depriving someone of guns, then they have the right to have guns.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2018 01:30 am
@Baldimo,
Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
Give it a scary name because it looks scary and people will fear it. Propaganda at it's worst. Goebbels would be proud of the American left and the BS they create against the second Amendment.
These are the guns which are killing people in mass murders. None of your failing attempts to get around that will work.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
These guns work no different than any other semi-auto rifle, handgun or shotgun. You just don't like the way they look.
No, I just don't like the way they are used by lunatics to go through buildings killing people. That's why they have to go, along with the NRA's bought legislators who let the slaughters continue.

Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2018 01:36 am
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
That is incorrect. They are just ordinary rifles and there is no justification for banning them.
They are the semiautomatic version of automatic assault rifles, which lunatics are increasingly using to take as many innocents as possible with them in their Blaze Of Glory.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
If there is no justification for depriving someone of guns, then they have the right to have guns.
And being mentally ill is a good reason to prevent someone from owning that much firepower. The Second Amendment is not an issue, you are entitled to be armed, it does not say you can own any type of arm you wish.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2018 01:48 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
These are the guns which are killing people in mass murders.
I am not sure that this is the case. But even assuming that it is, the presence of a pistol grip makes no difference to the outcome of these attacks.

Blickers wrote:
No, I just don't like the way they are used by lunatics to go through buildings killing people.
Why is it objectionable that such an attack involves a pistol grip?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2018 01:49 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
They are the semiautomatic version of automatic assault rifles, which lunatics are increasingly using to take as many innocents as possible with them in their Blaze Of Glory.
A semi-automatic version of a full-auto weapon is just an ordinary rifle, no more powerful than any other ordinary rifle.

Blickers wrote:
And being mentally ill is a good reason to prevent someone from owning that much firepower.
Not if the mentally ill person is no danger to anyone.

And especially not since the Obama Administration tried to disarm people with phobias and eating disorders under the guise of mental illness. If Trump had not been elected to stop such abuses, who knows how many people would have been disarmed under the left's ever-expanding abuse of the term "mentally ill".

Blickers wrote:
The Second Amendment is not an issue, you are entitled to be armed, it does not say you can own any type of arm you wish.
That is incorrect. If there is no justification for banning a type of gun then the Second Amendment protects my right to have it.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 12:42 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
These are the guns which are killing people in mass murders. None of your failing attempts to get around that will work.

Except where the mass shooter uses guns that don't fit this "theme". I've brought to light which shootings have taken place without an AR type rifle, you just choose to ignore them.

Quote:
No, I just don't like the way they are used by lunatics to go through buildings killing people.

So you should have a problem with the lunatics, not the gun. Do you get mad at the terrorist who drives a truck over a group of people, or do you get made at the truck?

Quote:
That's why they have to go, along with the NRA's bought legislators who let the slaughters continue.

Yeah, that's just a bunch of BS political rhetoric, it has no really standing in fact. You want the 2nd Amendment removed from the Constitution.

Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 02:05 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
These are the guns which are killing people in mass murders. None of your failing attempts to get around that will work.


Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
Except where the mass shooter uses guns that don't fit this "theme". I've brought to light which shootings have taken place without an AR type rifle, you just choose to ignore them.

So you're essentially saying that as long as there are mass shootings which don't involve AR-15 type weapons, we can't ban AR-15 type weapons. Either all types of guns have to go or none of them can go, no in-between. And you're against all types going.

Does that correctly state your position?
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 02:22 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
So you're essentially saying that as long as there are mass shootings which don't involve AR-15 type weapons, we can't ban AR-15 type weapons.

Now you've got it. It makes no sense to ban a weapon because you think it's scary and you think it is so deadly.

Quote:
Either all types of guns have to go or none of them can go, no in-between. And you're against all types going.

Well considering that is the aim of the anti-gun groups, I'm not willing to even give them an inch on gun control. Once it starts, you loons will not stop. I see no reason to ban any legal weapons under our current laws. Go ahead and ban the bump stock, I think it's a dumb invention anyways, it's a waste of ammo.

Quote:
Does that correctly state your position?

I don't trust the left when it comes to my Constitutional Rights. Once they are successful in banning one gun, they will go after the next. It's mission creep at it's worst.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 06:32 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
So you're essentially saying that as long as there are mass shootings which don't involve AR-15 type weapons, we can't ban AR-15 type weapons. Either all types of guns have to go or none of them can go, no in-between. And you're against all types going.


Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
Now you've got it. It makes no sense to ban a weapon because you think it's scary and you think it is so deadly.

So then, following the same logic, we can assume that you also favor dropping the present ban on automatic weapons and machine guns as well, since you feel strongly the blame for bad events should fall on the person doing the shooting, not on inanimate objects?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 06:59 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
So then, following the same logic, we can assume that you also favor dropping the present ban on automatic weapons and machine guns as well, since you feel strongly the blame for bad events should fall on the person doing the shooting, not on inanimate objects?
I wouldn't object to that. But let's pass the SHARE Act first.

However, note that restrictions on machineguns can be justified by the fact that machineguns are much deadlier than normal guns. There is no justification for a ban on pistol grips.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 07:06 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
But let's pass the SHARE Act first.
I dont like the implied authority (or lack of). This was obviously written by NRA.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 07:19 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I dont like the implied authority (or lack of).
The what?

farmerman wrote:
This was obviously written by NRA.
It's a good bill. It fixes a lot of problems with current law that have been plaguing people for decades.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 07:22 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
So then, following the same logic, we can assume that you also favor dropping the present ban on automatic weapons and machine guns as well, since you feel strongly the blame for bad events should fall on the person doing the shooting, not on inanimate objects?

Your logic would be wrong. First off, there is no difference between an automatic and a machine gun, there is a limited ban on them already. If you can own a semi-auto rifle you can more than likely own an automatic, state laws pending of course, the only limit for most people to owning one, is the cost since civilians can only own one that was made before 1986, so they are rare and expensive.
An automatic rifle and a semi-auto rifle are not the same types of guns, this comes from the BS use of the term assault weapon, people think it's an automatic when it isn't. Besides, we have a limited ban on automatic rifles which I'm fine with, I'm not for the creeping of gun control laws under the guise of "safety" though.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2018 08:40 pm
@oralloy,
Would this fix the BS that has plagued some gun owners from other states traveling though anti-gun states and cities like New York? There have been people who were suppose to get a connecting flight through NY, but missed it for reasons not of their making. They had to stay in NY overnight, then go back to the airport the next morning. When they went back through security, they were arrested for having restricted guns in the city of NY...
 

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