How many people is it acceptable to have.....

Diest - I said nothing about guilt. She is who she is and that's who she'll be.
I have no naive or innocent belief that twenty year olds today aren't having a lot of sex. I have worked with sixteen-twenty year olds almost my entire adult working career. I've had a good relationship with most of them. They've told me alot of stuff. I'm not shooting in the dark here.

I said absolutely nothing about PQ's behavior except in relation to the lie she told. And I think that's a big, important and possibly damaging lie. It wasn't fair to her partner. End of story.
She'd want to know the truth about her sexual partner wouldn't she? I think it's good sexual etiquette to have the same respect for the other person.
You didn't comment on it. As an educator- I felt it was an important point to comment on. I was addressing your omission - not her numbers.

I actually have very little residual sexual guilt. I've always enjoyed it when I had it and there was only one occasion that I'd felt I'd let myself down by allowing it to happen with someone who was totally wrong for me. I learned really quickly from that experience. I didn't like the way it made me feel- so I didn't do it again like that. I certainly never felt guilty - just avoidant of repetition of a less than pleasant experience - sort of the same way I felt when I ate something I didn't like - 'Oh, I'll never have to do THAT again- now I know.'

I hope my son and daughter value themselves and their partners. I hope they enjoy sex. I hope they find fulfillment and love. That's all the transference or projection of my own sexual history I'd place on them. They're totally different people than I was or am.

That is the sort of principle which is destructive of society.

The whole point of society, the whole point, is to mediate between the individual and the organisation of the group. That mediation applies to groups as small as a couple and right through everything else on up to the community as a whole. It is what the social contract is designed to eradicate. Or significantly mitigate. It is why it is said that freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose and it is why Dylan restricts himself to "one hand waving free".

Otherwise society, or a club, or a pub, or a workplace or a train journey becomes merely an aggregate of individuals each acting as they see fit. Such a principle negates the law, tradition, etiquette and all regulations either formal or informal. I consider it subversive and treason.

It rejects civilisation itself. It is anarchic and nihilistic. It represents the self-indulgence of an alienated narcissistic ego such as is normal in a creche or play-pen. It is immature. And not to put too fine a point on it it is suicidal.

There can be no question that Queenie's action had a latent possibilty, as aidan points out, of impinging on the wider society and in a number of ways. Had anything happened to cause that, on the argument TK so foolishly offers as advice, society would be perfectly entitled to let her sort it out for herself.

If society isn't there to fulfill its side of the bargain Queenie wouldn't have been in the club in the first place. She would be confined to quarters and had some stranger done that to her the male members of her family would have hunted him down.

And that bargain requires individuals to give up a portion of their freedom so it is not her opinion alone that counts. The real debate is about how much freedom the individual gives up and in return for how much protection from the community. The rest is childish fantasy.

I would have banned TK's statement from the thread. It was dangerously misleading.

Well I had never thought about it like that, to be fair.
I don't feel any moral obligation towards society, but I recognise that it is important to conform in some shape or form so as not to hinder my progress in life.

Aidan: I lied just for the reason Diest suggested. I don't want to be defined by my number. He is right in that this is what this thread is about.
It is interesting that you would consider the need to know what a partners number is in order to get on with them. The only real need i can see to know is if their number is higher it is slightly more possible they aren't after anything serious.

I am not 'down,' since I am rarely down, but I have begun to notice that the things that made me happy a year ago don't make me quite so happy anymore, thus the reason to find out a bit more about myself, how I work so to speak like Dag suggested.

good.

Thanks for the clarification. As I said (and was confirmed) the topic is more psychological. We need not tangent unless PQ takes it there. When someone shares personal information like this, I let them set the pace and dirction of the conversation.

I was a wellness educator, not a wellness enforcer. I provide information as it is requested. I'm not looking for pulpits to preach from.

T
K
O

It is not a moral obligation. It is your part of the bargain of the social contract. People who live under a government which is not fulfilling its part of the bargain do start behaving more individualistically. That is why a recession causes an increase in crime. And why the Government is striving so hard to minimise the social effects of the financial crisis.

One minor aspect of the bargain here is that the taxpayer is funding your expensive education, some of them young girls who work in packing plants, and there you are mooning about all week not concentrating on the studies they are helping you to receive and which, we hope, will confer upon you a higher social status than they have. Don't you think that having been granted such a privilege it is your duty to give your studies 100% of your efforts?

My question about who raised the matter of your personal body count has not been answered. I strongly suspect that it was the bloke because if you felt driven to lie about it it is hardly likely to have been you. Some people would say that, if it was the bloke, it was an impertinent question but that is neither here nor there. The point is why he would ask it and will other men ask it in the future and are you going to lie about it to them as well? Rightly or wrongly men are interested in knowing the answer. I think women are as well. I've been asked it more than once.

A future husband or even a boyfriend does not wish to walk into places with you on his arm and have chaps sniggering about "more pricks than a second-hand dartboard." And I have heard that a few times.

I think it a foolish question because your answer cannot be trusted. Which you proved. Which calls into doubt this vaunted intelligence of his. The fact of it being raised suggests that we are not yet in a world where your previous behaviour is "typical". In such a world, which Huxley rather amateurishly depicts in Brave New World, such a question would be fatuous.

I am not unaware that there are other possible reasons for asking it. But I would need to impute that he had had a somewhat advanced sexual education to bring those matters up.

How you work is a matter of some complexity and not amenable to a few nice sounding cliches. I consider such things as patronising.



That is all I'm trying to do for you. Look at it more carefully. All artists look that way. An artistic career is a permanent voyage of discovery. All certainties are eschewed. And it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Simon Sachma expressed a high degree of trepidation at the prospect of looking closely into the art of Mark Rothko.

PQ said:


A partner - it wouldn't even be relevant. Before I'd become anyone's partner, I'd know quite a lot about them, especially their feelings about sex, what it means to them and how those feelings match up to mine, etc.
A one night stand -yeah- it'd be the first thing I'd ask, if it were going to be all about sex for that one night. I'd want to know what kind of fire I might be fooling with and if I'd be likely to get burned (if I were going to have a one night stand at all - which I actually never have).
Anytime I had sex with someone it turned into a relationship for some reason or another.

But you know, I'm cautious and careful with my emotions and my body. I know what I have to do to take care of me and I've always done it.
Other people have other needs and desires and ways of taking care of themselves- I accept that.

I'm like Stevie Wonder. I just want to see a woman naked before I die.

Any particular favoured angle BP and lighting conditions BP?

Sorry BP. I completely forgot that Stevie Wonder was blind.

that's okay...just having my little joke.....

you and george bush....

BP said:

Does Squinney know? I'm sure she could help you arrange that.

Jesus christ if you knew how hard I worked you wouldn't even bring that up. From sept- december I basically worked a 7 day week, I had uneven modules which meant that I had 5 subjects in that period, and now I only have 3 till summer, meaning I have more time to go out on a saturday. Anyway, that highlights this whole issue really because this has started to draw on a whole load of speculation which has no basis in reality.

I'd disagree that I need to look at it more carefully. I think this whole thread was started by having looked at it too carefully.

I understand the reality of comments such as 'more pricks than a second hand dartboard,' but i really can't see them coming from anyone I know. My friends are fiends, most of them a lot 'worse' (depending on your stance on the issue) than me. I understand no 'husband' (which I can only see myself requiring for the legal rights) would want his friends to find his wife a slut, but then I wouldn't want a husband with narrow minded friends.

I didn't avoid your question, I just forgot since there was a large bout of posts. I slipped how many people I had been with (yes a lie) into the conversation on purpose to see what would happen. If you must know it came about like this, we were talking about how weird it was that we got on so well, he said that he had never met a girl as interesting as me, I said I had only ever been three guys before him, but out of them he was the most interesting, in return.

Yes, aidan I would be honest if it were a proper relationship, for the reasons you suggested.

Thank you for everyone's input.
I think I am in myself resolved in what I want now and how to get it. I am not quite resolved on what society now makes of me, but I deem it largely irrelevant, because society doesn't know, and the only people who do (my friends) do the same thing anyway.
pq x

I definitely don't recommend that Queenie. What you need is a period in cloisters and to emerge virginal. And stick to it through thick and thin. Don't ever tell anybody ever again that you've been fucked by 15 different chaps. It worries blokes in case one of them had a big dick. Which is quite likely statistically with 15. Preys on their mind I mean. Don't do it.

I used to refuse the company of any woman who insisted on wearing knickers or bras. And trousers. Bloody trousers. I ask you! Pantie lines are a real turn off.

true for about 90% of guys I think (though most would deny that THEY personally would be prejudiced against a slut), but I don't think that PQ is listening anymore. She has made up her mind to go the other way. I doubt a good result, but it is her life.

Hey Hawkeye, if it were not for sex none of us would be here, including you! Your parents did the bouncy bouncy. Does this make your mother a slut? It is the most basic of human instincts. PQ's not affected by religious dogma and guilt. She should be commended for that.

You assume that I have a problem with sluts...I don't. I am part of the 10%.

Spendius said:


Well that's so coincidental that you mentioned that because when I was a virgin and just about to lose that - I was with this guy named Jeff (a fellow New Jerseyite). Well I wasn't really nervous until I saw his you know what - let's put it this way - he was well endowed. And I'm thinking...okay...is this gonna hurt? Is it even physically able to happen?
And he's right PQ - none of my other partners quite measured up (in that regard) except one almost. But that was in a smaller sample - so just let the blokes worry-it's not your problem.


Yeah that was all good in theory - but I bet you'd be really turned off if you saw the state of her breasts now - panty lines would be wiped right out of your mind.