How many people is it acceptable to have.....

' It's the only time I feel attractive.'

Yeah okay - I definitely can get steamed up by certain masculine characteristics: voices, hands, and have you EVER SEEN A TRIATHLETE'S LEGS?
Those defined muscles just above and to the side of the knees? I don't know what they're called, but yeah, I like them.

And thereby hangs a very complex tale of media manipulation of the feminine.

categorizing and calling certain girls only 'passable', while others are 'Perfect English Roses'.

But answer my question. Are men and women held to different standards of morality in terms of sexuality?

I think of these things in terms of "the vital bodily fluids" and the sweaty grunting. The bottom line so to speak. Dressing it all up in euphemisms is not my cup of tea.

I'm not bothered about being seen as a responsible and respectable member of society who is all confused about which other hand it's on.

I see fathers talking about other men's daughters who would start swinging wildly if you talked about their own daughters in a similar vein.

Queenie is loose in a corrupt and vice ridden capital city and in the art world part of it with a bit of waitressing on the side. She is young, beautiful and talented and she has biology not in the biology lessons. Her parents are not on the scene. I was trying a bit, not a lot, to stand in for them and express a rose-spectacled view of what they would think if she was honest enough to tell them what she told us.

Run her story through your head in short sentences cutting out inessential details and filling in the missed out parts which everybody seems ashamed to mention such good Christians are they beneath the veneer of tolerance and modern sophistication.

It isn't easy discussing these things with moral relativists.

And the roles they play don't look like they need any special apprenticships, lessons or highly practiced skills. Anybody's daughter could manage them. At a pinch. Or most of them at least. And the money's good I've heard.

Hey- that's an idea. We can start referring to ladies like Queenie and Becksie as "un-gay".

We can start referring to ladies like Queenie and Becksie as "un-gay".

Why do you wish to attach a label?

Her parents are not on the scene. I was trying a bit, not a lot, to stand in for them and express a rose-spectacled view of what they would think if she was honest enough to tell them what she told us.

To what point?

People rebel because they are trying to find their identity. In the teenage years, usually this means tearing down (the rebelling part) before you can build up again. Self growth is always like this, even after the teenage years - only people tend to be more refined, find out what they want, and 'simply' replace old beliefs with their chosen new beliefs.

They say that a man being "unfaithful" is like him spitting out of the window and a woman being unfaithful is like another man spitting into his window.

There's a double standard in hard, dirty and dangerous work too.

Because that's moral relatavism.

Maybe. I said "they say" and I said "I think". That's all I said. Both acts are immoral. I don't operate the double standard.

What about motoring past children's playgrounds or flying over the houses of people who never fly. At least sexual immorality only has an effect if the parties want it to have. It doesn't bother some people so any effects must be psychological. The kids and the people who don't fly are being affected biologically.

What about childbirth? It's voluntary for a start.

And a lady told me it was like going to the toilet for No 2s. And a Russian proverb says that difficulties in childbirth are directly proportional to the fussing. I've seen cows giving birth without stopping eating grass. Howard Hughes said that a film star could have an hour off for it. There are regular stories in the press about babies popping out in unlikely places.

The hard, dirty and dangerous work goes on every day all year every year and gets no sympathy nor expects any. Women live on average 5 years longer than men in the UK. In ancient Rome and Greece it was the other way round.

Spendius, I'm not sure I found any theme in your post

Sex is a great deal less fun if it's just pure sweaty grunting. And the sweaty grunting isn't 'the bottom line', which I daresay is different for everyone.

To what point?

People rebel because they are trying to find their identity.

I already did. Everyone does (though they are unlikely to come to the same conclusion as me).

Same with unskilled labour, though the money isn't as good there.

Why do you wish to attach a label?

Yes, no denying that.

Spendius...come on. Pregnancy wasn't and hasn't been voluntary on the woman's end for almost the whole of history-

And even yesterday you were advocating not using birth control via the Pope's instructions.

What was this her tenth kid or something?

It looks like you are confusing sex with foreplay.

I fear you are out of touch with the sexual practices of modern youth. Oral sex is hugely popular because it doesn't lead to pregnancy and is believed to prevent aids.

Oral sex can get most men's attention. The topic becomes considerably more relevant, however, when coupled with a new study linking the human papillomavirus (HPV) to an increased risk of a kind of oral cancer more often seen in men.

The study, which appears in this week's New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), shows that men and women who reported having six or more oral-sex partners during their lifetime had a nearly ninefold increased risk of developing cancer of the tonsils or at the base of the tongue. Of the 300 study participants, those infected with HPV were also 32 times more likely to develop this type of oral cancer than those who did not have the virus. These findings dwarf the increased risk of developing this so-called oropharyngeal cancer associated with the two major risk factors: smoking (3 times greater) or drinking (2.5 times greater). HPV infection drives cancerous growth, as it is widely understood to do in the cervix. But unlike cervical cancer, this type of oral cancer is more prevalent in men.

HPV is ubiquitous. Of the 120 strains isolated from humans " about 40 of which are in the mouth and genital tracts " Merck's recently FDA-approved vaccine, Gardasil, protects against four: HPV-6 and HPV-11, which cause warts; and HPV-16 and HPV-18, which cause about 70% of cervical cancers. Similarly, according to the study, HPV-16 was present in 72 of the 100 cancer patients enrolled in the study. Between 12,000 and 15,000 new cases of oropharyngeal cancer are diagnosed each year, and about 3,000 people die from it. "It is a significant health issue," says Dr. Robert Haddad, clinical director of the Head and Neck Oncology Program at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. Haddad says that public awareness of the HPV virus needs to be just like that of HIV because the virus causes multiple types of cancer.

The study's findings bring to light a part of the debate over HPV vaccination and treatment that is often overlooked: the elevated risks of cancer that being HPV-positive has for men. According to Johns Hopkins' researcher Dr. Maura Gillison, who worked on the study: "When you look at the cancers associated with HPV in men " including penile cancer, anal squamous cell carcinoma, oral cancers " it's very close to the number of cases of cervical cancer that occur in the U.S. in women every year. We need to adjust the public's perception... that only women are at risk."

In his practice, Haddad has seen an increase in the number of younger people developing this cancer, people in their 30s and 40s. He attributes it in part to a "change in sexual behavior over the last decade." He says: "The idea that oral sex is risk-free is not correct. It comes with significant risks, and developing cancer is one of them."

Gardasil has become a vaccine rock star, but vaccines to fight HPV are still in their infancy. Another study in this week's NEJM points out that while the preventative vaccine works 98% of the time to protect girls not yet infected with HPV-16 and HPV-18, the vaccine is only 17% effective against cancer precursors overall. These findings could undercut the argument ensuing in more than 15 states to make the vaccine mandatory for young girls.

Gardasil and some vaccines in clinical trial are preventative, but drug companies such as MGI Pharma are studying therapeutic vaccines to treat those already infected with the virus. "We need to come up with better vaccines " and we need to study them in men," says Haddad. Gardasil has not been tested against oral HPV, but Dr. Douglas Lowy, laboratory chief at the National Cancer Institute, says that there is every reason to think that, in principle, "the vaccine should be able to have an impact on oral cancers attributable to HPV." Lowy says that the next studies might start with a look at the rate of acquisition of oral HPV in those who are vaccinated and those who aren't.

"There's no question that the debate needs to go further than where it is now," says Haddad. "Men are carriers and that is one way of transmitting this virus."

What right do I have to say that Queenie is beautiful and talented?

Which you admit with "Yes, no denying that." as a regular flyer

You come on. Virginity has a long history in both myth and reality. Women generally can't resist the easy money and promise of security.

Of course pregnancy is voluntary, forgetting rape.

No. She had two. The first a nine-pounder. It applied to both. And her sister said the same.

Maybe like stagefright. Muscular tension. Nerves. Wind ups. I don't know though. I'm only quoting.

It is hard to believe, and we were all amazed, but a young woman, no more than a 100 pounds slip of a lass came in the pub one night to show off a little lad who had been born just that morning.

Still- I suppose if you have to have a miniscule fraction of women in media who have nothing to write about, and who got their jobs on the casting couch, it is inevitable that they are going to wind the rest up with scare stories and deeply serious concerned and faked expressions.

Still- I suppose if you have to have a miniscule fraction of women in media who have nothing to write about, and who got their jobs on the casting couch, it is inevitable that they are going to wind the rest up with scare stories and deeply serious concerned and faked expressions.

Ah, now there's the miracle - the little lad. Did she let you hold him?

I'm in between a rock and a hard place.

But anytime I can walk, I do and if I can possibly drive instead of fly- I do.

As I said, sometimes there's a reason for less than morally sound behavior.

Do you not understand that women are sexual beings? Do you really think that the promise of money and security supercede their sexual urges?

And really, for how many women across the globe does that promise of money and security in marriage really work out ?