23
   

McCain shows his true character and leadership

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:16 am
@McGentrix,
Laughing

Obama 'failing to act like a leader?'

McG. We all have been reading each others' posts for a long time. And we know that you don't believe what you are writing here. You don't have to do this.

If by 'acting like a leader,' you mean 'swooping into town at the last minute, blowing up the deal, and trying to duck the debate;' then I must say, we don't want Obama to be that kind of leader.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:30 am
@McGentrix,
"Acting like a leader" in McCain parlance seems much like "acting like a clown" to other observers.

No offence intended to Costal Rat or other clowns, of course.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:35 am
@McGentrix,
Forgive us if we take this as a serious discussion about McCain's "leadership."

Flailing around, rushing from one place to another, lying to David Letterman, running his mouth and immediately reversing himself.....
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:01 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Lets use this thread as an example. I started this thread as a response to the McCain begs off thread. You guys (liberals) have that thread to trash McCain on, yet here I am reading attack after attack on Mcacin on this thread instead. I understand your guys anger about Obama failing to act like a leader and wanting to lash out about it, but there is a discussion elsewhere for that. Yet, because you know the few conservatives will probably come here, to a discussion with a less hostile title, you guys continue filling it with your propaganda.

Huh? I didnt realise that what you were after was a segregation of discussion into protective zones for liberals and conservatives only. I have been posting to this thread rather than the other one because it had the more cogent title, and because it framed the discussion as a broader question about what the events are showing about McCain's character and leadership - which is exactly how I'd frame it too.

In short, I have come to this thread to post my take about the topic as you phrased it, because I thought the framing you chose was more a propos than the other thread's. I disagree sharply with your take on the question, but I agree about what the question at hand is. How that is supposed to be a demonstration of intolerance, God knows.

If you define "tolerance" as "stay off my thread, kids", then yeah, I guess we failed the test. But then that would be a rather odd definition. If you think the actual responses have been intolerant, by all means feel free to call out the posts in question. I'm sure there are a few, but hardly all of them.

But there really seems to be a disagreement about what constitutes "intolerance". Personally, I dont think that us posting our own views, or quotes that we think summarise the situation well, count as intolerant just because they are critical of McCain -- whether you regard the views as "propaganda" or not. I mean, you apparently consider as propaganda, arguments that I thought were cogent and relevant. But as long as all that's objectionable about them is that you dont agree with them, I dont see how posting them counts as intolerant.

Remember, the question was about Coastal's assertion that "some democrats actually are tolerant and capable of discussing without resorting to calling others names", and your response that those dont exist here. Well, you may mind us posting views that you consider propaganda because you dont agree with them, but that's hardly the same as "resorting to calling others names".
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:33 am
So, back on topic, I think McCain blew this one. The original plan was not necessarily flawed. Were I doing it, it would go like this:

1) Go to Washington, saying "we need to work together as long as it takes to do this correctly."
2) Meet with the President, look engaged.
3) Tell the Republicans, "We're going into this room, locking the doors and we're not coming out until we have a package. Feel free to bring a pillow, I'll buy the pizza. We invite the Dems to join us." With the Republicans and Paulson in a room, the Democrats have to come.
4) Say "I hope to make the debate, but Senator Obama and I will be in this room with the door closed."
5) Get an agreement.
6) Act humble and praise the bi-partisan effort while my team talks about my leadership to every press outlet.

How has McCain done?
1) check
2) Didn't really look engaged
3) Disaster. The House Republicans are in revolt, McCain called it an early day, visited with Liberman and retired early.

Given that he is not knocking heads, I can't see how he can duck the debate. There is a real danger for McCain here. If Obama comes back from tonight's debate and says "We're going into this room, locking the doors and we're not coming out until we have a package," I think McCain will look indecisive and incapable.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 10:41 am
@engineer,
It just goes to show that McCain is made from the same cloth as Bush; a crisis is not that important. Bush took more vacations during a time of war than any president or leader of any country in this world. McCain doesn't understand what a crisis is, and how to bring leadership to it. Don't forget, his foreign experience almost mirrors Palins'. He was a "P...."
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 12:44 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Lets use this thread as an example. I started this thread as a response to the McCain begs off thread. You guys (liberals) have that thread to trash McCain on, yet here I am reading attack after attack on Mcacin on this thread instead. I understand your guys anger about Obama failing to act like a leader and wanting to lash out about it, but there is a discussion elsewhere for that. Yet, because you know the few conservatives will probably come here, to a discussion with a less hostile title, you guys continue filling it with your propaganda.

Where exactly are the tolerant liberals capable of duscussion? They must be getting drowned out by the rabble because I don't see em. I just see a bunch of angry people mad about their candidates failure to respond to a crisis and angry that their opponent did.


The post was titled "Mccain shows his true character and leadership". That is fine, if there are actual events or actions that indicate either strong character or admirable leadership qualities.....and if these actions or events reveal to the American voter that these are in fact both consistent and true of McCain.

What has been revealed however, is that his true "character and leadership" can be called into question by the very actions he chose to take in the past few days.

He suspended his campaign to be a pylon in Washington, as though the self proclaimed economic dunce would be of any assistance in a room full of actual economists.

He claimed the crisis was the most important thing, more important than the campaign, but failed to read the wee 3 page report/proposal, as though his limited knowledge and understanding of the economy would be adequate.

He continued to blame earmarks for the current economic crisis, completely ignoring the fundamental problems that made the entire market collapse--it wasn't earmarks.

Insisted of cancelling the debates in favor of "dealing with" the financial crisis, as though being President means you can put certain things on "time out" and get to them when it's convenient.

Yeah, Mcg, you'll see some liberals get up in your grill about McCain's character and leadership over this. It's silly to continue to pretending that transparent political posturing is a good substitute for sound logic and reasoned action.
Unfortunately, your post and your assumption that McCain is acting nobly is dishonest and there are like, 6 or 7 pages callin you on that bullshit.
It would have been different if there was some indication that McCain really cared, but the facts dont' line up that way.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 12:48 pm
@candidone1,
What is more amazing is that with McCain's actions and rhetoric the past week, he still enjoys the confidence of the majority of conservatives. (Not politicians.)
0 Replies
 
barackman28
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 01:30 pm
@nimh,
Yes, nimh, there is a segregation of discussion. I have been told that my posts were not "subtle". Very well. I was unaware that there was a subtle/non subtle guideline.

You say that"I don't think that posting our own views ... count as intolerant just because they are critical of McCain count as intolerant'

Cyclopitchorn might say that you should be more "subtle".

But then, I am afraid that Cyclopitchorn is in an ivory tower and has never been in the streets with the people. There is no"subtlety" there and views are posted by the people in no uncertain terms.
Debra Law
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 01:50 pm
From CNN Political Ticker
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

McCain made 'huge mistake,' Huckabee says

Quote:
(CNN) " Former Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said Friday the John McCain made a "huge mistake" by even floating the possibility he would not appear at the first presidential debate as planned.

“You can’t just say, ‘World stop for a moment. I’m going to cancel everything,” Huckabee told the Associated Press Thursday....


Apparently the presidential debate is back on and McCain announces that he wins! ROFL

McCain camp releases ad claiming debate victory

Quote:
(CNN) " The time between the final answer in any presidential debate and the campaign press release declaring victory can usually best be measured in milliseconds. But John McCain’s campaign " which has been downplaying his performance at Friday’s faceoff, offering praise for opponent Barack Obama’s “eloquence” and debating skill " seems to have decided it’s never too soon to start spinning the outcome.

The Washington Post reported Friday that the campaign was running an online ad featuring the headline: "McCain Wins Debate!" and a photo of a smiling McCain and an American flag background. Another featured a quote from McCain campaign manager Rick Davis: "McCain won the debate " hands down."


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/26/art.mccain.wins.debate.jpg



sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 02:04 pm
@Debra Law,
Huckabee now = McCain in 2000. Roughly.

Meanwhile, just for the record, this was what McCain was saying yesterday:

Quote:
John McCain's campaign expressed cautious optimism Thursday as congressional Republicans and Democrats agreed in principle on a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry hours before the two presidential candidates were to meet with President Bush on the crisis.

Even so, the action didn't appear to be strong enough to convince McCain to attend Friday's scheduled presidential debate. His campaign has said he wouldn't participate unless there was consensus between Congress and the administration, and a spokesman said the afternoon developments had not changed his plans.

"There's no deal until there's a deal. We're optimistic but we want to get this thing done," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ho1YzTq9L7VHzsHpSjXdSXBulJmAD93DTG2G0

Is there a deal now? No. Yet the debate is on.

Major McCain blinkage.
Debra Law
 
  4  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 02:06 pm
@Debra Law,
McCain shows his true character and leadership.

McCain proclaims that he suspended his campaign. His proclamation was false.

When is a suspension not a suspension?

Quote:
(CNN) " The difference between a suspended campaign and a full campaign is starting to look a lot like the distinction between a speed walk and a slow jog: to the untrained eye, the pace seems about the same....


CNN Link

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 02:09 pm
@Debra Law,
But to the conservatives, they see both as what McCain says. It just mangles and crucifies the English language - like Bush.

Most people "should" understand what is up and what is down. That's been imbued with confusion in the minds of many.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 02:09 pm
@Debra Law,
"suspending the campaign" = "cancel Letterman and threaten to cancel debate"

Letterman's still mad btw... I'm hoping McCain will give him more ammo and take this to the next level.
barackman28
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 02:12 pm
@sozobe,
It is clear that McCain does not want to debate Senator Obama. McCain and his crew have probably come to the conclusion that Senator Obama's intelligence, his charisma and his youth will show that McCain is just a clueless old man.

When ( and if) the people see them together in a debate, they will realize that the only person who deserves to become President of the United States is Barack Obama.

squinney
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 02:13 pm
McCain already won the debate???

WTF? I was gonna a bottle of wine and some cheese and enjoy the damn thing. I can't now. I mean, who want to watch a game when the winner is already known?

Dang. It was gonna be a nice Cabernet, too.
barackman28
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 02:24 pm
@sozobe,
I hope Letterman pulls out every unflattering photo of McCain he can find and put appropriate subtitles under each picture.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Sat 27 Sep, 2008 06:59 pm
I just saw this:

Quote:
Even though his campaign is no longer suspended, John McCain is staying in Washington this weekend to keep working on the bailout legislation. He will not be visiting Capitol Hill, however, preferring to work out of his campaign office.

"He can effectively do what he needs to do by phone," said senior adviser Mark Salter.


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/27/politics/fromtheroad/entry4482838.shtml

Shocked

"He can effectively do what he needs to do by phone."

Not uttered by some lowly lackey either -- Mark Salter. Senior advisor.

So why on earth was it necessary for them to "suspend" the campaign then?

(The answer of course is "it wasn't" and "it was a political stunt, not an actual responsible decision.")
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Sep, 2008 07:02 pm
@sozobe,
"Political stunt" should be written on anything and everything McCain does until election day.
0 Replies
 
barackman28
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Sep, 2008 09:47 pm
@Debra Law,
The vicious TV ads put up by the McCain camp were still going full blast in Michigan, Ohio and Florida. I don't think Senator Obama's team will respond in kind because they know that constant negative campaigning turns people off and they know that people can see through the veiled racism.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/22/2019 at 05:29:46