27
   

The Republican Convention kicks off Tuesday 9-2-08

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 09:12 am
@Cycloptichorn,
A little house cleaning is a good thing and Palin has experience in this area.

Obama and the democrats would never even think of cleaning out corruption in their own party.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 09:18 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

But you agree with me that it was the media, and not the Obama camp, which she had the right to forcefully go after for smearing her - right? You're not going to continue conflating the two?

I agree with you that her speech was very effective amongst Republicans. I doubt anyone else felt that way though.

Cycloptichorn


Conflating the two. Show anywhere that I have done that. The only comparisons I am making is that Obama AND his campaign spokespersons have been just as critical and just as 'snippy' and just as pointed in their criticisms of McCain and Palin. They try to make a case that it is 'McSame' and that what McCain/Palin are suggesting is no different than the last eight years which is not only blatantly dishonest however much it is politics as usual but is just as critical, in fact MORE so than what we have been hearing at the GOP Convention.

The GOP Convention is listing real accomplishments of these two remarkable individuals. The Democrat Convention had far fewer genuine accomplishments to report for their two candidates and and have to embellish or pretend that they have done more than they can claim. They therefore spent far more time ragging on President Bush and the Republicans than they did building up their own candidates.

But you don't see anybody complaining about that in the media or leftwing blogs do you?

On a personal note, I would have admired Obama enormously if he had shown true statesmanship and had gone public to request the leftwing blogs and the media to cease and desist in their unprecedented hateful attacks on Sarah because 'we are better than that'. He hasn't done that, and he won't, because he has to hope that he will benefit enormously from it. Words are easy. Deeds are a lot tougher but mean a lot more. He can be personally magnanimous and pure and stay above the fray while allowing others to do the dirty work. And there is no indication that this isn't exactly what is happening.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 09:20 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

And even you my dear friend, Okie, I think would not be so critical of her presentation if she was a man.

Point taken, Foxfyre. I will be looking especially at the opinions of women in regard to Sarah. Don't get me wrong, I think she should make a decent vp, I like her on a personal level, however, I am going to give my honest opinion regardless of whether she is Republican or Democrat.

One of the big reasons I disliked Hillary's speeches was because of her shrillness, just the unprofessionalness of them, so when I see any hint of that, I am going to say so. Of course, I never agreed with Hillary on hardly anything at all, and she wasn't likable. I never trusted Hillary, ever, and still don't. The only respect Hillary earned in my opinion was her ability to work and hang in there during this primary run, as she showed me the grit of a fighter, but then again even the mafia has grit.

I have been castigated on this forum for saying Palin is a true woman, and that alone is refreshing for a woman politician, in contrast to a feminist. I loved it when she introduced her family, and her husband, Todd, and said he was "still her guy." I think alot more women can identify with that than that of Hillary's situation. I would think that women should be tired of the whole feminist movement, the movement that at its extreme despises men. Palin is at opposite ends of that spectrum if I have it right. And I stick to that assessment, which should be intuitively obvious to almost everyone, despite the protests of the learned here on this forum, the learned libs that is.

I think I like Sarah and her family, the whole package. I just criticized the speech somewhat, but this morning, I am thinking, hey, give her credit, and she isn't done, this is only the beginning.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 09:35 am
@okie,
Honest comments, Okie, and thank you. I wish everybody could be circumspect and not caught up in blind emotional celebrity worship. I thought the speech much more of a winner than you obviously did and I was quite favorably impressed. But as I stated yesterday, it remains to be seen if she has the substance to go with the image she projected at least to me. We know that Obama doesn't have it, and we know that Biden is having to become something he wasn't before in order to be Obama's loyal Veep. I think Sarah will need to modify her views little or not at all in order to compliment her boss.

We still don't now whether Sarah is able to be more than a pretty face and a great speech on the campaign trail, but there is still time to find out. It isn't as if she hasn't been out there campaigning before though. She has at least as much 'executive experience' campaigning as Obama claims to have obtained running his campaign and she has experience running governments on top of that. Smile

Meanwhile
Quote:
Last night’s polling shows that, by a ten-to-one margin, voters believe reporters are trying to hurt Palin’s campaign rather than help. Republicans and unaffiliated voters strongly believe that a double standard is being applied to Palin because she is a woman. Democrats disagree. Perhaps most stunning is that, among unaffiliated voters, just 42% believe Obama has better experience than Palin to be President. Thirty-seven percent (37%) say Palin has the edge on experience. Again, most of the interviews for this survey were completed before Palin’s well-received speech last night.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_
presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll


I'm eager to see how the poll numbers will look after the speech.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 09:49 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
They try to make a case that it is 'McSame' and that what McCain/Palin are suggesting is no different than the last eight years which is not only blatantly dishonest however much it is politics as usual but is just as critical, in fact MORE so than what we have been hearing at the GOP Convention.


Ok, but that's on issues, right? They're not mocking McCain's service to his fellow Americans or Palin's biography. They're not showing utter disdain for their opponents' accomplishments and making petty remarks about their stage set.

Foxfyre wrote:

On a personal note, I would have admired Obama enormously if he had shown true statesmanship and had gone public to request the leftwing blogs and the media to cease and desist in their unprecedented hateful attacks on Sarah because 'we are better than that'.

Uh, he has done that, though he didn't single out "left wing blogs". He specifically said that families are personal and off limits. I heard him with my own ears. Biden said the same thing this morning on Fox.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:09 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
They try to make a case that it is 'McSame' and that what McCain/Palin are suggesting is no different than the last eight years which is not only blatantly dishonest however much it is politics as usual but is just as critical, in fact MORE so than what we have been hearing at the GOP Convention.


Ok, but that's on issues, right? They're not mocking McCain's service to his fellow Americans or Palin's biography. They're not showing utter disdain for their opponents' accomplishments and making petty remarks about their stage set.


McCain also has not claimed that his service to his fellow Americans is anything more than it was. He isn't pretending to have credentials that are being ignored and essentially unscrutinized by the mainstream media and his supporters aren't hollering foul when the credentials he does claim are scrutinized. How many stories re Obama's community organizer experience, something his campaign has oft cited as an important qualification, have you seen explored on the front page of the NYT for instance? I count zero. Or to any depth on inside pages for that matter. But they ran three....count them THREE...negative stories on Sarah Palin's personal life on the front page on the same day.

Quote:
Foxfyre wrote:

On a personal note, I would have admired Obama enormously if he had shown true statesmanship and had gone public to request the leftwing blogs and the media to cease and desist in their unprecedented hateful attacks on Sarah because 'we are better than that'.

Uh, he has done that, though he didn't single out "left wing blogs". He specifically said that families are personal and off limits. I heard him with my own ears. Biden said the same thing this morning on Fox.
[/quote]

I said that he said it. But he did not look into the camera and ask his supporters in the media and elsewhere to cease and desist there. He can pretend to be noble and honorable and above the fray and let others do his dirty work for him and he is doing absolutely nothing to stop that. (It would be different if it was a one day hit and then subsided or if there was valid substance to it. But it is not valid substance and it has gone on for five days now. Obama said the right thing. You can't make me believe that he isn't enjoying the negative publicity re Palin enormously hwoever.)
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:12 am
http://www.johnmccain.com/Images/VP/VP_SPALSH_HEADER.jpg
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:18 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
McCain also has not claimed that his service to his fellow Americans is anything more than it was. He isn't pretending to have credentials that are being ignored and essentially unscrutinized by the mainstream media and his supporters aren't hollering foul when the credentials he does claim are scrutinized. How many stories re Obama's community organizer experience, something his campaign has oft cited as an important qualification, have you seen explored on the front page of the NYT for instance? I count zero. Or to any depth on inside pages for that matter. But they ran three....count them THREE...negative stories on Sarah Palin's personal life on the front page on the same day.


I confess I don't know where you are going with this. We were talking about the differences in the tenor of the attacks between the Dems and the Repubs, right? I get your critique of the media -- the Obama campaign agrees with you on that. But there is a stark contrast between the types of attacks the Dems leveled at McCain and the kind that the speakers at the Republican convention have so far been leveling at Obama and Democrats in general (you all do realize that's roughly half of all voters, right? America first?). That kind of stuff plays well to folks like yourself who already feel negatively about Obama. But Obama has very high favorable numbers among Americans in general, and those people are wondering who this woman is to come out and show such blatant disrespect for the accomplishments of her opponent. (They are also wondering why we still have to look at Guiliani and what planet Romney lives on.)

Foxfyre wrote:

I said that he said it. But he did not look into the camera and ask his supporters in the media and elsewhere to cease and desist there.


I am kind of surprised that what he said isn't good enough for you. I doubt that you would expect McCain to do such a thing if, say, folks were circulating web rumors that Obama is not a natural born citizen, for example.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:18 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
Conflating the two. Show anywhere that I have done that.


You did it right here:

Quote:

Well, speaking as a woman who has felt fury and extreme resentment at the leftwing media's unprecedented unfair and hateful attacks on her and the bottom feeders like Daily Kos and Huffington Post who feed it, I thought she showed amazing restraint, class, and poise. Do you think if they had treated Barack Obama or Joe Biden or Michelle Obama even anywhere nearly in as contempitble manner that there wouldn't have been enormous outcries at the Democrat convention and protests by everybody who could find a camera to protest into? When they have delved into the most intimate aspects of her life--some even demanded she submit to a DNA test to PROVE that she is Trigg's mother--how scumbag is that???????--while declaring anything of Obama's family or background or family to be off limits for even close scrutiny, much less criticism,. . . .

Considering all that, Sarah was more than entitled to get in a few digs in her own defense. And yes, it is high time we started demanding that double standards not be applied in scrutiny of any political candidates, even if they happen to be woman.


You conflate the 'left-wing media' with the Obama campaign. You say that Palin was entitled to attack Obama and belittle his history, because she has been attacked on Liberal blogs and in the media. This is the very definition of 'conflation.'

I doubt you will find a shred of evidence that anyone from the Obama campaign has said anything personal or really even all that negative about Palin. McCain? They go out of their way to praise his service in every speech, and then attack his ideas. Palin did not do that. She went out of her way to attack Obama's history and mock his time as a Community Organizer. I thought that was pretty low-class and it wasn't something that the Obama camp does to the other side.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:21 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Being a low-class Community Organizer does not qualify Obama to be president.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:25 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Those non-Americans like me wish to have a community worker as president than a die-hard patriotic warrior who had gone ffar off to crush, kill the people who were never a threat to USa ( his vice is a guntrotting disturber of decency)
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 11:43 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

what I hearing from the Leftwing media and blogs this morning--smug, snippy, shrill, too partisan yadda yadda.


well, if the shoe fits...
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 11:46 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I wish everybody could be circumspect and not caught up in blind emotional celebrity worship.


what, you didn't like ronald reagan? Very Happy
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 12:24 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I wish everybody could be circumspect and not caught up in blind emotional celebrity worship.


what, you didn't like ronald reagan? Very Happy


Yes I did after I got to know him. I was a registered Democrat at the time. I was thoroughly disallusioned about Jimmy Carter for whom I had such great expectations but who was a great disappointment. I was not convinced that a B movie actor was the best replacement--I didn't much like him in the movies--but he won me over with his positive point of view, his ability to inspire, and convincing approach to government. And I'll have to say he delivered.

There is a huge difference, however, in appreciating the record, skills, and vision of a person who has a pretty good track record of delivering on most of what he promises, and falling all over oneself in some kind of hero worship for an unknown who thus far has been untested in anything.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 12:41 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I wish everybody could be circumspect and not caught up in blind emotional celebrity worship.


what, you didn't like ronald reagan? Very Happy


Yes I did after I got to know him. .... he won me over with his positive point of view, his ability to inspire, and convincing approach to government. And I'll have to say he delivered.


then you'll be voting for obama ??? wow! how cool is that ?? Laughing

when i first moved to california, i had a lot of older people tell me that reagan had been a horrible governor. can't remember specifics, it was way too long ago. there was something about how he emptied the mental wards and how that accounted for the large number of homeless wackadoos wandering around.

didn't he do the same thing on a national level? can't remember. doesn't matter much now.

i voted for him, so i guess i'm guilty of being an enabler.

good news is i learn from my mistakes.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 12:44 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Reagan carried California in both elections DTOM so how bad could he have been? In fact his first term he carried 91% of the electoral college and in the second every state in the union but one. And no, I won't be voting for somebody who avoided most of his actual track record at his own convention and who has nothing but a laundry list of big government programs and criticism of the present administration to offer.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 12:56 pm
Finally some positive press for Palin! We have to go to the UK to find it but this is great:

Quote:
Palin strikes back at critics
From FERGUS SHANAHAN
in Minnesota
Published: Today

A WEEK ago nobody had ever heard of her.
Today she is the most talked-about woman in the world. And with good reason.

Sarah Palin's sensational performance at the Republican Party Convention may turn out to be the tipping point of this rollercoaster American election.

Obama fans hoping she would fluff her big night were in for a nasty shock.

This speech has turned the election upside down. It was simply stunning.

Democrats and their Lefty media backers had been sneering that she was a small town nobody, a hick from the Alaskan sticks put into a job way beyond an inexperienced woman.

Believe me, you will not be hearing that again.

Palin turned out to be an electrifying mix of intelligence, passion, energy, optimism and plain speaking.

Full of self-assurance and aggression, she popped Barack's balloon big-time.

From the moment she walked on stage in this cavernous bear pit, bandbox smart in cream jacket, trim black skirt and black heels, she proved that John McCain knew exactly what he was doing when he picked her as running mate.

Hair piled into a slight beehive " more Sarah White House than Amy Winehouse " she blinked and smiled behind her geeky spectacles as the vast crowd went ballistic.

For an unpopular party divided over Iraq and struggling to compete with Obama's Messianic glamour, the choice of Palin looks absolutely inspired.

Main Street America will have loved her performance.

And it was seen by 30million voters " the greatest number ever to watch a candidate for the much-derided VP post.

She is popular with voters for the very reason America's snooty political establishment despises her: She isn't one of the Washington gang.

She's a moose-hunting mum of five with a sledge-load of problems behind her own front door that workaday Americans can relate to.

A child with special needs. A daughter of 17 pregnant. A constant juggle between family and career.

As she said, her family has had its ups and downs like any other.

Last night her first task was to introduce herself and her family to an American public incredulous that the unknown Alaska governor could within weeks be a heartbeat away from being their commander in chief.

Compared to the journeyman career politicians dominating both parties here she seemed fresh, natural, one of us and not one of them.

She spoke to America as one mum to another. She cracked good jokes.

What's the difference between a hockey mum and a pit bull?, she asked.

Answer: One wears lipstick.

What will have scared the enemy camp most is the devastating series of prime-time punches she landed on the jutting Obama jaw.

Showing steel beneath her magnolia jacket, she slaughtered his lack of experience, his vanity, his emptiness beneath the windy waffle.

It was the most powerful demolition of the Democrat hero I have heard in two weeks on the US election trail.

The St Paul audience adored her.

When she duffed up the Lefty media commentators for their sexist sneers, the vast crowd roared approval and pointed in anger at the titans of the American press aloof in their special enclosure.

And quite right too: who ever asked whether Obama could still be a good dad if he became president?

The irony, as Palin pointed out, is that liberal media sniping has only succeeded in uniting Republicans behind her.

The wagons have been drawn up and the Republicans are ready for battle.

The McCain-Palin ticket now looks in exciting shape.

A war hero and a heroic mum. Experience and optimism. A man and a woman.

And when McCain joined the Palin gang " babies and boyfriends and all " on stage after her speech there was a sense of cheeky fun absent from last week's solemn Obama coronation.

How the Democrats must be regretting Hillary isn't running with Obama. Barack's sidekick Joe Biden looks a dull old dog compared with the ball of fire that is Palin.

But most fascinating of all, consider this: If Obama loses, Hillary Clinton will run in 2012. Opposing her is sure to be Sarah Palin.

That would guarantee America its first woman president.

And my fistful of dollars, having seen both in action here, would be on Palin.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/fergus_shanahan/article1647092.ece


old europe
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 01:18 pm
@Foxfyre,
You had to go to an opinion piece in a tabloid that is part of the Rupert Murdoch media empire in order to find something positive about Palin?

That is depressing....
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 01:19 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Reagan carried California in both elections DTOM so how bad could he have been? In fact his first term he carried 91% of the electoral college and in the second every state in the union but one. And no, I won't be voting for somebody who avoided most of his actual track record at his own convention and who has nothing but a laundry list of big government programs and criticism of the present administration to offer.


yes reagan did. as did ghwb in '88. that was the last time a republican took california.

like i said, we learn from our mistakes. Very Happy

i guess we'll see about palin's track record. so far all i've heard is her laundry list of big government gripes and criticism of her opponent.

there's lots of allusions to her reforms and such, but no specifics that i remember beyond selling the governor's plane on e-bay

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 01:53 pm
Democrat constituents at it again. Do these people have jobs? Why are they here?

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/090408_codetext.jpg
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 12/02/2021 at 10:52:29