98
   

A good cry on the train

 
 
Eva
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 12:45 pm
Actually, it explains a lot. I've never seen two artistic geniuses be able to make it work long term. Not sure why, but there just doesn't seem to be enough stability in such unions.

Maybe you need to forego the exhilaration and find someone a little less creative, Joe. Someone who will be content to let YOU be the artistic genius in the family.

Because you are one, you know.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 01:27 pm
@Eva,
Two famous Brits, Eric Gill and Bernard Shaw, expressed the view that teaching women to read and write and giving them the vote would lead to a mass breakdown in the relationship between men and women. Many others have expressed the view but not as politely as those two. Henry Miller's On the Ovarian Trolley is one and Simon Raven was ostracised by most of his friends for being forceful about it.

Now, before you jump all over me, try, do please try, to keep your heads and bear in mind that I have expressed no opinion on whether all that is good or bad or right or wrong but it is widely accepted, and I accept it, that this mass breakdown, in which Joe is but an iota, is a function of those two important factors.

It logically follows that Joe is just another victim of the process and all those in favour of it ought to remember their contribution to Joe's position which, I can assure him, is very common. I have personally witnessed dozens.

The ex-editor of Private Eye, a cousin of The Queen, bust up traumatically with a highly educated politically active woman in mid-life and took up with a table-swabber from Lyon's Corner House. (A coffee-shop on The Strand).

The reason I have no view is that I don't know for sure the economic and military aspects of equality of the sexes in either the medium or long term. I suspect that long term it will be a disaster.

I am up for an experiment to disenfranchise men and ban them from the education system just to demonstrate my neutrality.

For myself I wouldn't go near an educated politicised woman with a barge-pole.
and I never have. But that's merely a personal preference signifying nothing. Women don't have the hex on me.




Eva
 
  7  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 01:45 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
For myself I wouldn't go near an educated politicised woman with a barge-pole.


Speaking for educated, politicised women everywhere,
I thank you.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 03:06 pm
@Eva,
I wasn't criticising them Eva. Did you not understand that? I thought I had made it quite plain. I'll bet you wouldn't go near dock labourers. Or mule skinners. It isn't a prejudice.

But you prove my point really. There's no talking objectively to them. They take the 'ump at every little thing.

Equality of opportunity and income is not a stopping point. And look how they are buying all their goods from countries were there is no equality of any sort.

From an intellectual point of view they blow themselves out of the water when they go shopping. And they only mean equality for educated, politicised women anyway. Not the fish gutters. Not the immigrants. They want our employers to put themselves at a disadvantage relative to other nation's employers and then they go buy the products of the other nation. That's racism in my book. It's everythingelseism as well.

Don't think a smarty-Alexissy riposte is going to throw me. I've heard thousands and a lot of them much more original than your's. Many quite crude.

I was trying to clue Joe in a bit. Get him on his feet.

Who might be the someone who will be content to be Joe's second-string. Not you I don't suppose. Someone else.
Eva
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 06:42 pm
@spendius,
You really don't get it, spendius.

I would never suggest that Joe find someone who would be "second string." That is an offensive misinterpretation. There are many different qualities one can bring to a relationship, creativity being only one of them and certainly not the most important.

There have been many, many studies on the subject of long-term compatibility. The trick, it turns out, is to pick someone whose strengths and temperament are complementary, not identical.

martybarker
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 08:22 pm
@Eva,
Quote:
Quote:
Two famous Brits, Eric Gill and Bernard Shaw, expressed the view that teaching women to read and write and giving them the vote would lead to a mass breakdown in the relationship between men and women. Many others have expressed the view but not as politely as those two. Henry Miller's On the Ovarian Trolley is one and Simon Raven was ostracised by most of his friends for being forceful about it.

Now, before you jump all over me, try, do please try, to keep your heads and bear in mind that I have expressed no opinion on whether all that is good or bad or right or wrong but it is widely accepted, and I accept it, that this mass breakdown, in which Joe is but an iota, is a function of those two important factors.

It logically follows that Joe is just another victim of the process and all those in favour of it ought to remember their contribution to Joe's position which, I can assure him, is very common. I have personally witnessed dozens.

The ex-editor of Private Eye, a cousin of The Queen, bust up traumatically with a highly educated politically active woman in mid-life and took up with a table-swabber from Lyon's Corner House. (A coffee-shop on The Strand).

The reason I have no view is that I don't know for sure the economic and military aspects of equality of the sexes in either the medium or long term. I suspect that long term it will be a disaster.

I am up for an experiment to disenfranchise men and ban them from the education system just to demonstrate my neutrality.

For myself I wouldn't go near an educated politicised woman with a barge-pole.
and I never have. But that's merely a personal preference signifying nothing. Women don't have the hex
Quote:
on me.


Are you for real or are you just pulling someones chain?? Sounds like BS to me.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 11:27 pm
@Joe Nation,
Awe Joe. Sorry to hear it.
(((((((( Joe(at least she's taking the cats)Nation ))))))))
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 11:32 pm

Hey Spendy, a word to the wise: if you were thinking of taking up marriage counselling, please don't.
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 12:07 am
Thinking of you Joe (hard day ahead) Nation - keep talking - today is gonna be a tough one - hoping you are k. Hugs to you x
spikepipsqueak
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 12:57 am
@Izzie,
Joe, I don't know you, except by your words, which are often wise, funny, inspirational.

I think it makes you a pretty special person when total strangers want to stop you being in pain, if only that were possible.

Hang on, breathe deeply. Wishing you strength.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  6  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 04:03 am
Good morning all,
My apartment is full of tightly packed boxes, stacks of shelves and the guts and rails of a closet hanging system. L is sleeping in our, well, my bed. She was packing until 3AM or later, I don't know because I was fast asleep.

I was fast asleep because .uh... I had a beer, a martini and two fingers of Scotch plus a big Bleu Cheese burger in the company of Thomas, Kickycan and his author friend, Ray and HighSeas.

(I must say it's a very good thing to have a Swiss woman with a cigarette bouncing around her mouth scream at you at the top and bottom of her lungs about Alsace and Lorraine when you yourself are trying hard to find things to occupy your mind and heart. It was wonderful white noise and I thank her for it. I also thank her for the kind words she did say and the two fingers of Scotch. yum.)

We called Frank, he called back. I'm not sure he understood a word we were saying (there are helicopters landing and taking off at full volume.) so he still may not know about the breakup. L and I just had dinner with Frank on the Pan about two weeks ago, so he'll be as surprised as I was.

Oh, and Thomas called Bernie and Lola and shouted into the phone at them.

Thomas and I will be running in the same half marathon next month in Queens. Right, Thomas?
Ray, (we've got to get him to join us here on A2K) goes on a job interview this morning, so that's at least one person in New York who has more to worry about than me.
Kickycan was disappointed to hear I was going to be single. "Crap," I could hear him thinking, "How can I compete with guy? No way."
He's got until after the first of the year then all Manhattan is mine, mine, mine.

I only started to cry once during the get-to-together and it wasn't while HighSeas was screaming (Yes. You. Were.) but no one noticed. It was just a brief upsurge. It was great to be with friends.

I got home about ten thirty, helped L get the last screw out of the closet wall. We stood amongst the boxes and boxes. She had too many hobbies, she said brightly, -- knitting, beading, painting, scrapbooking and more. She smiled.

Joe(Uh huh, I said and went to bed.)Nation
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 04:54 am
@McTag,
Mac wrote-

Quote:
Hey Spendy, a word to the wise: if you were thinking of taking up marriage counselling, please don't.


You mean we should carry on the way we are going and forget about marriage altogether. Are you a divorce lawyer by any chance?

Just think Mac--by which I mean get real--that there are X million married couples with only one TV, one newspaper, one Sky subscription etc (two can live as cheaply as one) and if they all split up there would be twice as many TV sets, newspapers and Sky subsciptions needed. Plus twice as many of all the other things married couples share. Like houses. They are supposed to be building 4 million single accomodation units in the South-East alone.

A person living alone gets a 25% discount on their council tax. So a couple splitting up increases the council's income by (2 x 75%= 150%. ) over the 100% if they stay together. A 50% gain to the council.

So we have a good idea of who is in favour of marital breakdown and the methods they use to get us there.

If I was Minister of Marriage that lot would be out of business.

Just opining that I should stay away from marriage counselling is hardly addressing the issues. What have you in mind. There are millions of "Joes" out there. I know more than enough of them. I've seen them crying in the pub.

I'll tell you why too. It's because men can't get a woman as easily as a woman can get a man. And men can't weep in the witness box as good as the soaps have trained women to do.

Joe is just another victim of the meat grinder. It's nothing personal. By the sound of it Joe is a lucky one. There seems to be no kids involved.

Attack Christian theology and the Joes follow like night follows day. And I don't give a shite how much anybody doesn't like that.

These matters are far too complex to allow superficial judgments in one sweet easy breath. And ladling the syrup is the worst of all worlds.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  4  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 04:58 am
@Joe Nation,
That last post was really something, Joe. You write very funny stuff while experiencing terrible pain. (How do you manage that?) I predict you'll write a wonderful novel (which will make you rich & famous!) about this time in your life, but later ....
And to have spent such an evening with such good friends you met on an internet forum! That really is extraordinary!
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 05:22 am
@Joe Nation,
I just found out about all this and In my entire virtual relationship with you, I never left room for the fact that you were a normal human being with deep feelings. ALthough I didnt cry at any of your posts, I did sit back and reflect at how having your heart stepped on actually feels like.
I dont mean this in any smartass way but perhaps if youd undertake writing about this experience for some publication , it would assist in "the process".

You are a good guy Joe, at least from what I read in your posts.


When my first wife left me, I went for some help in coping and was alerted to the fact that the "dumpee" usually rebounds much quicker, being free of much of the guilt and all. It actually worked out that way.

I hope that your period of grief is followed by one of those periods that we all get, in which we begin eagerly planning and formulating entirely new pathways and undertakings. Ive always found these to be great shots to the creative side.



OGIONIK
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 05:27 am
@farmerman,
hrm, funny i always knew you and kicky were irl friends i think?

the cycle of life, up and down, and all around and everywhere between.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 07:39 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe-

Do not drink to shift it.

Look in the mirror and repeat "It's only people's games you've gotta dodge".

I think writing about it is not much different from wriggling on the cross.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 08:14 am
@spendius,
"Whoever observes himself arrests his development."

I think it is Andre Gide. It might be Oscar Wilde.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 08:33 am
@spendius,
just try to shave without a mirror dipshit.
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 08:47 am
Thank you Thomas, Kicky, Ray and Highseas for being with Joe yesterday. Wish I coulda been there. I've never been privy to the screams of a Swiss woman. That you worked out a "pairs" half marathon during your gathering might be enough to bring me to New York. Please advise of the date.

Thinking of you, Joe.

s(as a politicized woman,I plan to vote)quinney
Foxfyre
 
  4  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 08:58 am
@Joe Nation,
And to my special friend Joe--you may not believe it but I have regarded you as such--the next, and perhaps the last, time you will cry is when you stand where those boxes and assorted stuff were and they are gone. I think there will be a finality in that and hopefully a catharsis that will move you on to beginning to getting on in your life. I am glad that you have Frank and Thomas and High Seas and Blatham and Lola and Kickycan and all others who truly do love you. I can't imagine going through life without friends--especially going through a really shitty time without friends--and those who have them are truly blessed.

And thank you for caring enough to make us laugh. I imagine it never ocurred to you, but it is your sense of humor and good nature that has made you one of a handful of people here who have actually made me back down and think and/or re-evaluate a point of view. (You may not have noticed that I can be kinda sorta opinionated (cough) so that was no simple feat.)

And mostly I have appreciated you because we have been able to strongly disagree, but you have never been one to be hateful or hurtful. (Which I think probably describes you in real life too which would make you a good catch for somebody smart enough to appreciate that. Personally I think your lady is most likely making a huge mistake here.) (5'8" is taller than me so that's tall.)

Sitting here waiting for the sun to come out again for Joe.

 

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