Oneness vs. Trinity

You indeed are correct. I could pretend it was a typo, but truth be told I dont have an either or.
I do not understand how the trinity or the oneness theory make the reading of the bible logical. It seems illogical to me that God could be created, which the scriptures say that Jesus was the firstborn of creation (col 1:15). It also says that the holy spirit is poured out. That does not denote an action you can do to a person. I see the oneness arguement as so illogical it can only be explained as I had it explained me, "one can not know the ways of God". I dont accept that answer ever, as the scriptures do hold the answers when we look hard enough for them, and continue meditating on them through prayer,
With Jesus continual reflection of any praise to God, of whom he said there was only one, I see Jesus as the bible said, as the son of God, and not God himself.

There are some things that are a mystery as scripture tells us. I could not explain to you HOW God accomplishes being the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But because of my faith in God I believe it. The is Jesus God or not debate is one that has always gone on and always will I think.

I understand your faith, and you're right, there are certainly some things we may not be able to comprehend. I concur that Jesus was a god, the bible says so. Satan is also a god, as is Ba'al, Rah and Eric Cantona.

The scriptures call Jesus the firstborn of creation, while the trinity teaches that Jesus is uncreate, and I will always be disturbed by teachings contrary to what I read.
Can a creation be greater than its creator? Rather Jesus gave no seizure so as to be equal to God (phi 2:6) If Jesus was God, Satan would have had no reason to attempt to gain his allegience through the 3 temptations, but he did try, as he saw a chance to derail Gods purpose.

The problem is that significance of stating that Jesus is the God designifies the meaning behind his sacrifice. I should explain. Adam sinned and therefore the debt of sin entered all of us, one that we as imperfect humans could not pay back. When Jesus died perfectly faithful to God and free of sin, he paid our debt back to God. If Jesus was in fact God himself, he only shows that he could be faithful to his own will. His statement in the garden of Gethsemeny was "let not my will, but yours take place" differentiating between his will, which would have been to avoid dying as a blasphemer, bringing reproach on Gods name, and Gods will, which was carried out.

there are also examples of when Jesus refuted any praise that belonged to God, as identified when he stated " he would not be called, "good" or "rabbi" or "father" always stipulating that the praise or title belonged to God. Jesus did much to seperate himself from God.

When you read the history of the trinity, it actually entered christianity as one of many platonic theories accepted during the early centuries when greek theology impacted on christian belief.

Since you asked our opinions, I will let you in on a fact. It's all mythology created by man to explain things they fear or don't comprehend. Be cool to your neighbors and live healthy. I'm not sure if there is or isn't a god but it's not looking good in my opinion.

Will u inform us of HOW u discovered this alleged "fact" ??
Is the "fact" your guesswork??





David

The Bible says that Adam fell asleep (forgot who he was). The Bible never says that he "woke up." Few people ever wake up to who they truly are. And, so we fret and suffer, thinking we are these bodies, that die.

Did someone say the Bible is perfectly true?

Considering a whole lot is said about Adam and the fact he had children with Eve after he went to sleep, I think we can assume he woke up.

Though some stories in the Bible actually happened, some of it is also symbolic.

That is true but what's with the drinking smiley?

The bible calls Jesus a created being, flesh and blood and draws a line between worshiping the creation versus the creator.

some trinity numerology
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 not 1.

1/3 is not equal to 1

0 + 0 + 0 = 0

Any trinity would have to be based upon zero and not one.
oneness with zero

There would have to be an aspect of Jesus that was un-created, a spirit, dove, and/or the part of god that might personally interact with creation. etc

That internal part in Jesus would have had to had God personally literally invade his body flesh and blood and take over his mind and eventually become him.

One wonders if God cannot come up with a better way to communicate with his creation than invading a body, a cloud or a burning bush...

One might think that god could come up with his own getup and come down here and walk among us. But not even a single text message before the last tsunami.

The story of Jesus is exactly that, a story. How long will God invade bodies in this weak and suspicious way before he descends from his holy throne so we can see him face to face?

If God can create one drop of water he should be able to create his own form that he/she can walk among us with. Even the wizard of Oz is more creative than God.

Why did Jesus go back to God once he was resurrected and wait 2012 years and still counting? Why didn't he stay here in his new body? Oh but he had things to do up in heaven and he was too busy to call and alert anyone that the tsunami was coming and also his mother Mary was too busy to text anyone either.

It's a nice story and it has some truth that I can identify with.

The idea that god would masquerade in a body on earth so he could be incriminated and murdered in a mob style hate crime, brilliant!

Is there any truth to this claim? The fact that this violence is still happening and people are being judged unwisely is still a sad commentary on today's justice system.

Did God's shenanigan bring about any change in morality?

The greatest is charity.

The traditional Trinitarian position is in violation of the first commandment Mk.12:29. Paul still believed God was one after accepting Jesus 1Tm. 2:5 have 2 persons God & MAN the mediator is where we meet God. Jesus often said. Of self could do nothing "sounds like me" was father in him who did the works.

Once again the bible is the champion of ambiguity. It clearly implies that Jesus is both God and not God.

For the trinity
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,

Against the trinity
1 John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Comment:
Is the purpose of this ambiguity so we can war over it or is it there so we do not take our own personal doctrines too far?

More ambiguity
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

They are one and the same...I believe that the 3 make up one being...I do not know how this is done so...

But think of it as Volume or time...made up of Height, width, and length...the 3 equal one...

All 3 are needed to make one, and one could not make up for another, equaling one common thing in the end...

The Father, Son, and Spirit, make up one living God....

I really like this question. I was always confused about the Trinity...

While I'm a "Trinitarian", I feel I always thought the Trinity and Oneness was the same thing.

But there are some cases that made it seem like God and Jesus are 2 different entities. Like when Jesus was praying to His Father in the garden before he was crucified. Or when he said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do". It's hard to say he was talking to himself calling himself Father. right?

Genesis 1:26 Says Let US make man in OUR image. Seems like more than one. no?

Also, when Jesus first showed himself to John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit came down as a dove; separate right?

So based on those aspects, I'd have to stick to the Trinity. But Jesus did call himself God on several occasions. So weird...

I still rather believe the Oneness concept because there are some things impossible for man to understand. After all we got little man brains and God could blow our minds.

So is this a opinionated question I may never understand, or is their some strong verses/facts to support they are 1ness or 3 as 1?

I like your answer because God created man in "their" image. And we have men and women. So maybe the holy spirit is a "she" and maybe even the same she wisdom from proverbs.

I still want to believe our Almighty God is 1 and doesn't need his gift the Son to exist or the holy spirit for him to be sovereign. Then it would seem like we worship more than 1. But again, God can blow our minds with his existence. Such a confusing idea..

Good read.

Who is the Bible talking about in Genesis 6:2 then?

He is talking about anointed men of God...and the women who were instantaneously attracted to the men because God, was in the men, with anoitings...

This is why I do not believe the Holy Spirit is female...but interested in your thoughts....


http://able2know.org/topic/7065-6#post-4879109

First of all your interpretation of Oneness is incorrect. People do not understand scripture and the power of God.Scripture says that those who follow Jesus will accept the words that were given to Him and go into the world as He was sent.They are also given the glory that was given to Him so that they would be One as He is One with the Father.Reference;

JN 17:6(Father) "I revealed your name to those whom you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything you gave me is from you,
because the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.

JN 17:17 (Father)Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world. [/b]
And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.
"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be One, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be One, as we are One,
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.