Oneness vs. Trinity

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:

Doorsopen,

If I may ask, what denomination are you? I have never heard a "oneness believer" say that the Son was created.

Some people who have returned from human death
have said that thay found that there is really only ONLY ONE.
All else is illusion

David

Where's Xingu when you need him?

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Bible scriptures aren't really proof of anything, since they've really not been recorded with that purpose in mind, in my opinion. They are excellent tools for learning and exploring, though..

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Sort of ridiculous to refer to him as 'Son', don't you think? Or would you be satisfied with the understanding that they are one in purpose?

Ridiculous? The bible calls him the son so how is it ridiculous? I have NO problem understanding they are one in purpose.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Good observation, AM. BTW, interesting avatar. Is that a friend of yours?

That is my darling little mule, JJ (aka Joy's Jewel).

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@Arella Mae,

Arella Mae wrote:

neologist wrote:

Sort of ridiculous to refer to him as 'Son', don't you think? Or would you be satisfied with the understanding that they are one in purpose?

Ridiculous? The bible calls him the son so how is it ridiculous? I have NO problem understanding they are one in purpose.

But one in IDENTITY, that is a mule of another color. . . .

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@Arella Mae,

Arella Mae wrote:

neologist wrote:

Sort of ridiculous to refer to him as 'Son', don't you think? Or would you be satisfied with the understanding that they are one in purpose?

Ridiculous? The bible calls him the son so how is it ridiculous? I have NO problem understanding they are one in purpose.

this might help

As you have probably heard, Jesus is the Word of God, hence the fulfillment of the Word of God in human existence in God’s Presence in human existence. In the sense like man, God has will, expressed His will in His Presence. Shown in Genesis when His Spirit (God’s Presence) moved on the face of the waters. Then said. And His Word is fulfilled according to God’s Will, and the He declares it good. Therefore Jesus Son of God, of God the Father, in the Presence of God since the beginning. Came into human existence and fulfilled the will of God for human existence that God made, in God’s Presence. All three are One and not without the other just as your will, the expression of your will is in your presence, by words and result.

Man is made to be in God’s Presence, which is God’s Choice for man, and fulfilled in Jesus Christ the restoration thereof. But that is not necessarily what men chose.

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@dpmartin,

My biggest problem with the "oneness" is to believe Jesus IS the Father you have to believe that Jesus lied when he said He HAS a father.

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@Arella Mae,

Would it have been better for the manifested Jesus to have told the people...."I am God"? Should the Holy Spirit declare...."I am Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Oh, by the way, I am also God."

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@Intrepid,

Do you believe Jesus is the Father?

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@Arella Mae,

This is a very complex issue. I believe that the trinity is made up of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I have previously given an analogy of water, ice and vapour where they are all forms of water but a bit different in manifestation.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

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@Intrepid,

I thought that is what you believed but I wanted to make sure. I don't understand why people can't just accept what the bible says about Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is very baffling to me this oneness doctrine.

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@Arella Mae,

Arella Mae

thanks for the reply

In Israeli history they understood the Word of the Lord spoken in God’s Presence. For they understood the Lord their God and His Presence with them. Please be clear on this, Jesus never said He is the Father but One with the Father of the Father who is with Him and in Him. For all creation knows the Will of God by His Word spoken, in His Presence in creation.

It's kinda like this; your presence in the world, allows you to speak in the world. And your speech is of you which would require your presence in the world in order for it to be heard.

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@dpmartin,

I never said Jesus IS the father. Maybe I am not being clear? I know Jesus is not the father. The discussion is about why do others think he is.

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@Arella Mae,

Their own interpretation thereof. It seems that many seek their own understanding of who or what God is. Rather then what God says He is.

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@dpmartin,

I couldn't agree with you more!

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@Arella Mae,

Arella Mae
thanks for the reply

I believe we are all in dire need of discernment, in these days of hostility toward the Truth of God. It just so happens I was reading commentaries in the Torah discussing the reasoning of Kosher. If it has this but not that, it’s not Kosher to receive as food. And an abomination unto us.

For example I’ve been in churches were they want to be Righteousness and execute Judgement but don’t understand that God’s Mercy sets over His Law and Covenant. Hence one is not without the others, or it is not Kosher, not of God . But yet there is Mercy, there is Righteousness and Judgement. And another understanding in Jesus Christ, One is not without the others.

But God has the Grace to forgive our misunderstandings of Him, or that we would be wrong about Him, but God the Father, through the Son is never wrong about us.

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@Arella Mae,

can i ask this question? he said baptize in THE NAME OF the father the son and the holyghost. now he said do it IN THE NAME. what NAME did he tell them to baptize in?

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@mikezap2100,

Doing it "in the name" means in the authority of. Jesus, himself, when he ascended said baptize in the name of the father, the son, and the holy ghost, did he not? So many times Jesus refers to his father but the oneness want to explain this away as he was speaking from his human side at the time. He was fully God and fully man AT THE SAME TIME. Oneness are the ones chopping him up saying he talked as a man sometimes and God as others. There are too many verses in the Bible that speak of the father and plenty of them are of Jesus Himself talking of His father.

This is a heresy that was thrown out of the first church. To believe in oneness is to believe the church has been wrong for over 2,000 years.

To believe Jesus is the father is to believe that Jesus lied because he said he HAS a father.

To believe Jesus is the father is to deny the eternality of Christ. He didn't become the son when he was born of a woman. He was always with God.

I have no clue how God accomplishes the these three are one. I only know somehow he does it and to deny he does it is heresy. To believe in "Jesus is the Father" is to believe Jesus lied. There is absolutely no way around that.

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@Arella Mae,

The Logic of the trinity makes me giggle

The trinity teaches that God asked himself to go to earth to save mankind.
Then he agreed with himself and volunteered himself to himself to offer himself.
Then God impregnated a woman as himself, with himself.
God prayed to himself and glorified himself repeatedly.
God strengthened himself and talked to himself.
Finally God forsook himself and sacrificed himself to prove his loyalty to himself.
While dead he resurrected himself so he could exalt himself above himself.
Then he sat at his own right hand and waited till he placed his enemies as a footstool
Finally with Satan's forces defeated God would turn his kingdom over to himself
That all things would become everything to himself.

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@Smileyrius,

Um, you just described the logic of the "oneness" not the trinity. I'm assuming it was just a typo.

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Oneness vs. Trinity

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