Oneness vs. Trinity

Well said indeed!

Though Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible but it means "triune" or "three". Three Persons in One God with three personalities.

I was revisiting this thread and wanted to ask you whose definition of oneness are you saying is incorrect?

Love the picture Arella, and I like the blue font...!!

Awww thanx. That is my mule, Joy's Jewel, aka JJ. He's a real hoot!

I like that name as well!...I have to be honest....I do not know much about donkey's or horses or (Mules)...But he looks very well groomed and taken care of...

I knew nothing about mules (horse mother/donkey dad) before I had JJ. What personality they have. He is so gorgeous because his mother is a Paso Fino and she is gorgeous. He got his daddy's ears and nose though. He's a funny animal.

I believe that there is one God that exists in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The first and greatest of all the commandments in the Bible. This commandment was emphasized by Jesus, on whom be peace, when a teacher of the Law of Moses asked him: “‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’ ‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’” (Mark 12:28-30).
Notice that Jesus was quoting the first commandment from the book of Deuteronomy 6:4-5. Jesus confirmed not only that this commandment is still valid, but also that it is the most important of all the commandments. If Jesus thought that he himself is God, why did not he say so? Instead, he stressed that God is one.
.AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:30-31)
"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." (John 14:21)
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (John 14:15)

divine status—a status Jesus denies in the gospels:
The first and greatest of all the commandments in the Bible. This commandment was emphasized by Jesus, on whom be peace, when a teacher of the Law of Moses asked him: “‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’ ‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’” (Mark 12:28-30).
Notice that Jesus was quoting the first commandment from the book of Deuteronomy 6:4-5. Jesus confirmed not only that this commandment is still valid, but also that it is the most important of all the commandments. If Jesus thought that he himself is God, why did not he say so? Instead, he stressed that God is one.
.AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:30-31)
"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." (John 14:21)
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (John 14:15)

There is reference in the New Testament, King James Version, to the trinity, in the First Epistle of John 5:7-8.
King James Version

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

The above verses exist only in the authorized King James Version, and form the strongest evidence for the doctrine of trinity. “the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” has been removed in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971, and many other Bibles. In the New Revised Standard, 1989, those same verses read as follows: “There are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.” The differences between these recognized Bibles represent a theological crisis. The average Christian, as well as many Christian preachers and ministers may not be aware of the removal of the strongest verses advocating the trinity from their Bible! Any one should ask himself why these verses of the King James Version were deleted from later versions of the New Testament, and how they were introduced in the first place!
The following are the above verses in different Versions of the Bible:

American Standard Version
“And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.”
New American Standard Bible
“For there are three that testify the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”
Revised Standard Version
“And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.”
New Revised Standard Version
“There are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.”

Reading the same verses from different versions of the Bible can be very confusing and frustrating experience.

The only begotten son

Again, the word “only begotten” exists only in the Gospel according to John 1:14, only in the King James Version:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth”

Interestingly enough, this word “only begotten” does not exist in the Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard, and other versions.

Revised Standard Version
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father”
New Revised Standard Version
“And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth”
Good News Translation
“The Word became a human being and, full of grace and truth, lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father's only Son”
New Living Translation
“So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father”

Consequently, the two basic principles of Christianity, trinity and son of god, exist only in Gospel according to John and in First Epistle of John, only in the King James Version, a version that was described as having grave defects. The average Christian should have the right to ask why did the basics of my Christian faith expunge from later versions of the Bible, and what happened to my faith? These are very serious and crucial questions. Again the question is why this word “begotten”, that is extremely important, was deleted from later Bibles? But this is what Christians are made to believe in the churches without any references to the authenticity of the Gospels or to the different versions of the Bible. However, Christians also know that God has many sons according to the Bible:

Genesis 6:2 “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men.”
Exodus 4:22 “Israel is my son, even my firstborn”
Deuteronomy 14:1 “Ye are the children of God.”
Psalms 2:7 “The Lord hath said unto me, (David) Thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee.”
Jeremiah 31:9 “for I (God) am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first born.”
Luke 3:38 “which (Adam) was the Son of God.”
Romans 8:14 “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

Trinity does not make sense
The trinity is a doctrine that had always seemed confusing and contradictory to me. It didn’t make sense to me that God (the Father) created Himself into the form of a human being. I couldn’t understand how this All-Powerful and Perfect God could be born in the womb of a woman, one of the very creatures that He created? Then, for God to be crucified by His own creation was doubly confusing. If He was dead, then who was it that was now controlling the universe? All this seemed to me to make what I understood as a God that was infallible and Perfect in every way to be a creature that was mortal and in need. After all, Jesus ate, slept, and drank; exactly as other humans do. For God to need food, drink and sleep seemed incomprehensible to me. After deep refection and discussing these matters with various Christians, it became clear to me that this couldn’t be what God revealed to Jesus. I believe that God, who created the universe, was capable of guiding His creation to the true understanding of who He is and what is the straight path. This doctrine didn’t seem to make much sense to me.

Blind belief is dangerous and destructive!. Bible tells us to prove things.
(I Thessalonians 5:21): “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”


The teachings of the Church contradict the teachings of Jesus (pbuh) and that is the cause of the confusion. If a sincere christian who wants to follow Jesus, asks priests about trinity, the answer that he gets is "It is a Mystery, not explained by Jesus clearly", at that time again those forget that Jesus said,

"I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing" (John 18:20 (NKJ)).

"God is not a God of confusion."—1 Corinthians 14:33, Revised Standard Version (RS).


There was no mystery in the message of Jesus, nothing secret. Will you accept the priests' so called "mystery of trinity" and forget clear commandments of Jesus? Trinity or divinity of Jesus to be anywhere close to basis of chritain faith would have to be there in bible in clear words in any even one book of bible, with Jesus saying I am God, worship me, which is not. Doesn't it mean something to you.

Jesus clearly said:

A) Mark 12:29: "the Lord our God, the lord is One".
B) Metthew: 26:39: "He went a little farther and fell on His face and prayed" (Following Jesus way is following what he did). Jesus prayed to one God
C) Matthew 4:10 "You shall worship the Lord, your God, and him only you shall serve"
D) John 14:28 reads-- " You heard that I said to you,I am going away and i am coming back to you. If you loved me , you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father,BECAUSE THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I AM"
E) Mark 13:32: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
F) John 5:19: "Most truly I say to you, the son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative but only what he beholds the father doing."
G) Matthew 19:17. "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
H) Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me
John 7:16

What if Jesus were to ask these questions to you today:
Question 1. Why did u address your devotions to me instead it should have been to true God? Did I ever direct u to do it, or porpose myself as an object of religious worship?

Question 2 . When my disciples requested me to teach them to pray(Luke 11: 1-2),did I teach them to pray to myself or to any person but Father?

“Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?”—John 10:36.


The trinity is a doctrine from about the year 325 AD, It has its roots in polytheism, pagan religion, and pagan philosophy (most probably added to christianity by humans to make it more acceptable to worshippers of more than one God). It is not in the bible unless you really, really stretch it to fit.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia - 1967, VOL. XIV, PAGE 299:

The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, PRIOR TO THE END OF THE 4TH CENTURY. But it is precisely this formulation that first claimed to title "The Trinitarian Dogma. AMONG THE APOSTOLIC FATHERS, THERE HAD BEEN NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY APPROACHING SUCH A MENTALITY OR PERSPECTIVE.


You should not accept the word “son” literally . Word "son" was used in bible for general human beings and other prophets also. "we all are the children of father in heavens" indicates that word "son" was used in different meaning of love and care.

Mathew: 5:9. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of God.”

Exodus 4:22.
“And thou (Moses) shalt say unto Pharaoh, thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.”


Jesus, Moses, Mohammad (p.b.u.h), they all worshiped the same God, the God of Ibrahim. All prophets taught "surrendering one's will to God" that is the meaning of word "Islam". Word "christianity" did not exist at the time of Christ, but you will find Jesus teachings to be "surrender your will to God" in bible many times.

JAMES 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


Mohammad (peace be upon him) was also a messenger of God, who never claimed to be God, the same way Jesus or Moses never claimed to be God, nor did they ever say worship me. There was just not one holy book sent by God on earth through His messengers. The last one had to be there to correct mistakes in the previous ones. The last testiment from the same source, with many similarities, but correcting mistakes in earlier ones made by humans.

If only the genuine followers of Jesus, who truly love him, read the Bible in context, and study the Qur’an, they will definitely reach the conclusion that GOD IS ONE, without any partners; and Jesus (pbuh) the son of Mary (pbuh) is a messenger of GOD!

Muslims love Jesus, they believe in his miraculous birth with the will of God without a father or sexual act (the way Adam was born without a mother and father), , they believe in miracles that Jesus performed with permission of God, muslims faith demands them to believe Jesus was a great prophet of God and belief in the original message of Jesus the massaya.

Qur’an, revealed to the Prophet Muhammed (an illiterate person, who didn't know how to read or write) some 600 years after Jesus, (pbut) corrects the errors that crept (knowingly or unknowingly) into the message that Jesus brought. This book should prove to be a very valuable asset to both Muslims and Christians


The Holy Qur’an warns in Surah 5:73& 74: “They do blaspheme who say, Allah is Christ the son of Mary. But said Christ: O’ Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever joins other gods with Allah- Allah will forbid him the garden, (i.e. paradise) and the fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong doers, be no one to help”. “Surely they are disbelievers, those who say: Allah is one of the three in a Trinity: But there is none who has the right to be worshiped but one God (i.e. Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them”.

Would you really believe in some twisted and vague words in Bible that people try to use divinity of Jesus.in Bible, written after 50-300 years after Jesus by people who never met him. Jesus spoke Armaic, not English or any other language. Just one word "Gay" has changed its meaning in just 50 years, what would happen to something written 50 years after Jesus and translated hundreds of times, and till now corrections happening? Will you go by just one unclear statement in Bible added by humans in it, and ignore clear commandments of Jesus.

Decide whether you love Jesus and want to follow his clear words and be saved, or love other human beings who gave different meaning to his original words. Reject any idea that makes you think of God in three distinct images or forms, follow Jesus and Mohammad p.b.u.h who said God is one, without any partner.

I see this thread still has legs.

How are all you folks?

Doing well Neo. I hope you are also.

Older, fatter

Finally realized I just can't stay away

I fall somewhere inbetween Trinity doctrine and Literalist. I think that there is a such thing as Holy Spirit, and it is separate from God, and there is a such thing as God, and then Jesus himself; meanwhile I think the doctrine states and implies his Will is One, but there is a separate holy spirit and a separate God and a separate Jesus, but the Will is One.

The pagan trinity is where it comes from. The concept of the pagan trinity is drawn.

I haven't heard from Arella Mae for some time now. I'd like to see her back, of course.

I would say both views are wrong. If one wants to escape all them delusions all they have to do is follow two simple rules for the believer. Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)