On the edge and toppling off....

Reading.

Thinking.

Sending hugs to all of my friends.

working my way through your post but this caught me first. R said those things but it's almost as if he didn't include S in the list. Maybe the phone exchange isn't such a bad idea. Let S call, let R decide if he wants to answer. Harder on you, perhaps, but in the long run it may be easier for the two boys to establish a separate relationship.

Ah, ok... on second thought... S-boy knows the history. Maybe he just wants to send a happy birthday text or message to his brother. S-boy is mature beyond his years (unfortunate, but true -- we've discussed as much re "those coming up behind"). He can decide how he wants to approach his brother's birthday.

Yes, well, some kids have to accept that fact as a reality and, if it's a reality, then.... yes, it's sad but...

(((((Bethie))))))



Oh Dev - you know, as I say, I don't know whether I am right or wrong. It feels right as I move along in my life and I guess, grow away from what was pulling me down.

I won't say it's the right thing to do - but if seeing the parents is gonna have a detrimental affect on you - I would rain if off until another day. The more that it is brought to you from the attention of those who do it - the more it hurts.

If you believe it will hurt you and set you back - don't allow it. They can come by and see Thing1 and 2 and do the family thing - you can try and shut the emotion down (it get's easier with time) - you can make small talk and go find stuff to do - say you are studying.... whatever.... or you can plain just say no for the weekend - weigh up what is likely to throw you more.

Yep, good for the kids to see grandparents - if Mom then does back down under - then.... no no no

See how you go for a bit - you can always take a long walk with the dawgs.

I find the hardest thing playing the happy families - the talk is stilted - as soon as Mom mentions Ryan I feel a forecfield go around me and lalalalalala to defend. I had the works the other day about how unfair it is and I should be involved in the house and R and how the system did blah blah blah. I asked her to stop talking twice and I wasnt comfortable discussing it. She continued. I said "enough - no further discussion about my son". I will deal in MY way not yours. He is doing well. Its his birthday. His prize in his eyes (misguided as it is) is NO CONTACT, NO CARD, NO PRESSIE.

R-boy asks for NOTHING. He wants nothing from us - at all. He will no accept stuff from us (tho he took the money I sent over for his holiday to France but has never mentioned it) - thats coco.

If your parents are coming by to see sweet Things - thens sobeit if you can handle it not. IF YOU ARE GOING TO STRUGGLE - make an excuse until you find yourself in a stronger place. where you have the control, not them. I listened to the things you told me when we met. You know, you are strong. You have that inner strength. You found it coming to me up in Chi-town.

Trust what your inner voice tells you to. Do wht is right for you. If you can do the ohter path - the whole family sees the pieces shatter again.

See you you feel in the morning. Then make a decision and don't sway from it. Keep the control of your feelings in check. Please try not let the past break you. The past is the past. It can't be changed. You can try and see if there is a break down in the barriers - but as soon as a uncomfotable level is reached - back off - back away - protect yourself, thus protecting your family.

You can do it hun.

Keep talking if your wish. I am only slightly coherent at this point

12 is young, but not so young that he doesn't understand. It isn't the "12" you wished for him but it's the 12 he carries. He does pretty well with it and I've no doubt he'll continue to do so. Rather than you deciding whether you'd have him send a card... what does S want to do?

For 12, he's pretty terrific!

S-boy is 12. He's lived through a lot with you. He knows things with R have been confusing for everyone in the family for years now. He probably knows that you can't explain why R is doing what he's doing.

I think you can honestly tell him you can't explain R, that you can help him (S-boy) decide what he would like to do about R's birthday, and that you will be there to help him S-boy celebrate/be sad with what the result of R's reaction to his decision is.

I don't think it helps anybody to pretend R's actions/reactions are understandable to anyone else. S-boy could end up wondering why everyone else understands R except him, and that'd be horrid.

Ahhhhhhhhhh JPB - R said a lot more. He said that he has nothing to talk to S about - what could they possibly talk about, as if S even knows what third base is. He said he's not my brother - he's your son. He said he doesn't want to see his cousins and any family. We are nothing to him.

I could let S phone (tho he will be with his father on Saturday (there's a gobsmack) - waits for escuse, horses need mucking out or some shut shite! - but I know the impact it will have on Sean. I guess if he asks me again, I will let him try and take what happens. This isn't about me truthfully. I'm ........ closed.

I don't want S to think too much - you know what's he's like.


R was doing the I wanna die thing with me yesterday - i didn't buy into it - it alsmost passed over me. I don't want him talking to S about that. Though he is fine - he can still cut. Not me. He can still cut S - would he? - I dunno. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Thank you - I knew you will be remembering and thinking along. Thanku x

yep, I hear ya - S is very mature - he had to grow up quick and did make a terrific job of it. I will give him the option. Both his Dad and I said we would take him to see R (not said to S) and tomorrow I will say about him making the call. R can refuse and I won't put S in the position of going there to be turned away - but perhaps there can be some compromise.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... will keep you posted.

I'm strong re R. Hard to live and see S's response to the rejectment. We were advised by the psychs way back then, not to keep stuff from S and he has to be part of it - after all, this is his life too - so....... I guess I knew already I would have to do something.

Reassurance is a good thing for us both.

Thanku so much. x

interim posts above, hun. What does S want to do?

He hasn't mentioned it today. When he got in the car tonite he said "mom, you look so happy" and held my hand as I drove along. He saw there are birthday cards he for R - he didn't mention it.

I believe he will wish to send him a card and see him. I think we can get past the seeing thing - I don't believe R will let him - he was pretty "forceful" bout that - but perhaps he will answer the phone to him.

I don't think it will go well. But that's a crystall ball that doesn't exisit.

So, I will let S make the choice and..........we'll take it from there. Crossing toots. x

Be honest with him. It usually pays off enormously.

It sounds as if you and S-boy keep things from each other re R. There's really nothing good about that. Really.

The honesty and sharing will get easier for both of you, eventually. It may help S-boy with his feelings of guilt if he understands that no one really "gets" R. If all the big people around me were trying to cover for something I knew was strange I'd either be pissed (if I realized they were covering), or worried (if I didn't know they were covering and thought I was the only one that thought the way I did).

Is there any way you can have the "Things" meet with your parents somewhere away from your home, but not out of your control?

You don't want your parents messing up your feeling about your sanctuary/home. Coffee shop/park ... just not your home. Someplace you can supervise without participating.

gotta run to a horrid event at M's school tonight but I very much agree with ehbeth re S filling in his own blanks when presented with limited information.

Yep - totally agree - honesty is the best policy in this case.

S-boy doesn't know the gory details of the past and I hope will never know, maybe when he is much older. This sort of information he should get and I think you've just given me ways to do that and establish how to bring it into conversation.

R doesn't come up too much in conversations any longer. The odd ocassion is when we normally find out from "someone" that R has been doing something or whatever the occasion and everyone knows, excepting us - and delights in telling us while we just look at one another and fix eyes - it's like keeping the pair of us strong if someone is talking about him - we just lock eyes and smile at one another. Then we have a reaction later. I become "oh good for R - he's doing well" and all that, and S-boy then cries and is mad at me for not crying to because I ought to be sad he's not here. Sometimes, when he is hurting so bad, I do cry - more for his pain, than mine.

I think, as I say, because I have the shut down - it's the only way I know how to get thru this "loss" (if you like) - it's hard to then try and take on S-boys loss - when i do... it's bring me down and I musnt let that happen. However, as I say - it doesn't happen too often and our lives are very full. The occasions... birthdays, Christmas, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, family events - anything S-boy wishes to share.... well, he phones R sometimes and then has to deal with the rejection - every time. But it his choice to phone. His father stops him. I wont. He also tries to talk to R on msn - R will say "wassupi" - then" busy - go away and don't bother me".... soul destroying for S - but again, he chooses to do that. At least he knows his brother is still there.

He was told that R had a brilliant holiday with our friends. This upset him dreadfully. He said R should be with us. I explained all teenagers would rather go away with their friends and we should be happy for him that he was having a good time, after all, we were too.

He kept very quiet at that stage and hasn't talked about it too much. He is relying on Christmas - he believes R will come home.

We'll see. Day at a time.

Yes - I will ask him tomorrow about what he wishes to do and... who knows, R could be having a good day and talk with him. Posivibes.

It worries me - but, less so that when R lived with us and the impact that had on S-boys life. S-boy is a changed child. He has a weight on his shoulders - but he's an incredibly strong little fella and broad shoulders for one so young. Will get him thru - he has a reslient nature - I just loathe knowing that he misses his brother so much. R used to want to see him all the time. He's a teenager now so there is that normal "don't want the little bro being around with his mates" thing - but as we all know, it cuts much deeper than that.

S-boy is a survivor tho - all 12 years of him.

Thanku all.

I must zzzzzzzzzzzz - school in less than 6hrs

thanku xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx really

amazing how a little fella has a dominion he can hold mightily well too.

Yep Dev - agree with beth ... try and keep your comfort zone where that's your safety space rather than them coming to you to see the Things. If that's impossible for any reason.... the garden. Don't be crowded girlie. Love yourself, B and kids - keep your home your sanctuary - you wounds are deep - we talked about that - home is where the heart is, keep your heart safe there if it's at all feasible.



Nite............. see y'all tomorrow












(thank u so much one and all) x

Izzie... just catching up again, and again am so impressed by how much you have to deal with and how well you do.

I was agreeing with ehBeth's posts and this latest one kind of reinforced that. Do you share with him that it's OK to be mad/ sad/ angry etc? This particular excerpt makes it sound a bit like the message he's getting is that he should be happy... should be glad for his brother... and if he's not, that's his failing...

I get how it's so hard to take on/ deal with his sadness as well as dealing with your own, though. I think that's part of what you were talking about in asking for advice.

My advice from what you've said, and maybe misguided (i.e. maybe there is other important info I don't know) is to both be honest, as has been talked about and as you plan to do, and also support his anger and grief and bad stuff. Just plain acknowledging how hard it is, without necessarily trying to turn it to good stuff in that moment.

Thanks Iz-, Beth ...
I agree. I've just been feeling ookie over the e-mails from my "monster". The get-togethers usually are away from home. They just wanted to come with the cupcakes this once. It was what they wanted to do.
Thank goodness things remained status quo. Mom-ster was all surface talk, not even mentioning the e-mails. So, all is well for now.
I think that's it, Iz-. Their coming over to my home, my sanctuary made me feel like where I live would be unsafe somehow? Anyway, as me gal Izzy would say "hey ho"! All better now.
By the by Thing 2 has had a little bit of struggle with the new school year, but today was a good day. He seems to be a good little receiver in football (that's American, Iz- and Dutch-... ) This would make B-daddy very happy. Might offset the fact that he wants to play the flute - like his mama did.

I like football (American) though I like soccer too...just know football better. I am glad he is having fun with that. Of course there is nothing wrong with playing the flute...


Dev - thoughts and prayers are with you as you prepare for and deal with your folks. Hugs to you hun.
mis