On the edge and toppling off....

Is it possible for you to take any time off, Iz? You are suffering enormous (understandable!) stress.



Your mother is weak - I don't want to say she's a "gutless wonder" (& wants to be seen as "warm & caring" at your expense) ...she relies on you to be the strong one, with no acknowledgment of how difficult & painful it is for you to have to be this strong person - because you have no choice! (Where's your ex-husband in all this? Washed his hands of the whole "too hard" situation, most likely. While probably accusing you of all sorts of "unreasonable" behavior & decisions, I'd suspect! Where are his parents in this deal?)



Once again, she's not supporting you. Undermining your authority (& the positive influence your difficult decisions could have on R, long-term ). In fact, she's being quite controlling. She's not thinking of the long-term impact on R, she's simply getting through each "crisis" as painlessly as possible - for her. Does she like being seen as a selfless "saint"?



He knows you'll always be there. (see my previous post) Also he is 17 years old. Do you remember what you were like at that age, Izzie? I remember what I was like: full of righteous indignation!
I doubt this is a permanent condition!(thank god! )



She decided? And she calls herself your friend? What's the story here? I'd ask her to pay the bill herself, seeing as how the decision was made without your knowledge & without her knowing whether you can afford it. What a nerve!



The point is that everyone seems to be doing what they think is the best thing for your son, Iz. Different things, without your consent, without your approval or "blessing", and I wonder, with how much consideration about what's best for R? You are not wrong & they're all right. The best situation would be if all of you could cooperatively work together, a consistent approach. (AS if you didn't know this already!) But, Iz, as it's not happening like that, you're going to have to find a way to switch off the extreme anxiety, accept for the moment that R is beyond your influence & try & calm down. All this stressing is only making things worse for you & I'm worried you'll make yourself ill. I assume you're be getting some counseling assistance (I certainly would be, in similar circumstances!). For a bit, Iz, try, try, try to focus on you! Restoring a bit of peace & calm, as difficult as that is. And if R wants his independence, well, let him have it for now. (Believe me, if there are any problems, your mother or your "friend" will ensure that you're the first to know about them! ) Fighting R for his "independence" will probably make him redouble his efforts. Let it go for a bit, if you possibly can. He's only 17, remember? And I really doubt that this will be his long-term attitude to you.

Good luck, Iz. If you're at work, take a big, deep breath. You can get through this. You can.

Catching up. Glad msolga was here to talk to you through the night. Let me know when the phones are plugged back in.

Are you sure you're ok to drive to London?

I cant quite make myself leave the house and see anyone I know. I wont go to work today. When I get in the car I will drive straight to London. Then I'll be fine.





exhub washed his hands a long time ago after raising them. Self-preservation. My preservation. He may have got that right. He no longer hurts the way I do. He has his new life. R has no part in it. He phones my Mom daily to find out what R is doing. He is very close to my parents. <gag> He even turned up there on Father's day, so I left. He then had a big BBQ with young son, my brother and rest of family, all who have nothing do with R. They keep him at a distance. R is not allowed into their lives.

Mom is a good person - she tries hard to do the right thing to keep the peace. She doesn't realise she hurts me. She doesn't see she isn't "helping" R - she believes "someone" has to do these things because R says so. She struggles at being a grandma and being his Mom. She is not his Mom. He treats her like a Mom. Mom has always been very controlling and in control - she is the Matriarch of the family in every sense. When I left my marriage - she, they, did not approve. When I met someone else, G, that was fine - someone who they believed would help R - he wasn't there to help R - he was there for me. He couldn't do it. R made too many suicide threats to get G's attention. Too much for any person not blood related. My parents loathe his weakness and what it did to R. He will never be accepted by any of them even tho he has now come thru for me. As Mom said last nite "you know you would hurt your child again by being with him". Mom is a selfless saint in the truest sense. She really is. Her saintliness makes me feel like shite. She phones me to tell me my exhub fridge has broken, or they are going up there to fix something for him and his girlfriend, they helped him move house. Blah effin blah. DON'T TELL ME. I DON'T WANT TO KNOW.





Ah.... there we differ. R is beyond righteous indignation. He has been seen by many different psychs who say his complexities are very severe. Deep down, inside his being. He believes I do not love him, that no-one can, that he is unlovable - why else would you give your child up. R and I will not have mother/son relationship - I can live with that - I did put him in care. The least I could hope for is to be treated as a human being. He believes a suffer pill would treat me better at this point in time. Most of the time, it does not get to me. I have learned to live with that... with a lot of help and still getting a lot of help. I've learned to trust someone in my life whom I can talk to. There's always a silver lining.



She's a good person too. One of my closest friends. She knew it would hurt me - she had sat with me the other day as I was trying to figure out where I could take both my kids on holiday which would suit them both. Thing is, it's not about me. It's about what's good for R. She didn't know how to tell me she had invited him on holiday. She doesn't need my consent. She wanted my blessing. Of course, she has it. They will have a great time. I can think of no better family for him to be with. Doesn't make me feel good tho. That's my selfishness. He said he would come away with his brother and me. He got a better option. Who can blame him. He's a teenager. I would do the same thing - in fact - her eldest kid is house sitting for me this weekend with his girlfriend. I thought they could do with some space as he's just finished his exams. Yep - I checked with his Mom first and asked whether she thought they would like a weekend away. They are delighted to have the house. My friend is delighted. I should be delighted about R going on holiday with them. I just wish I hadn't found out from Social Services by email asking for his birth certificate for a passport.




They always do. When you place a child in care - for the "right" reasons - the system takes over. They didn't do what was best... they did everything to keep the peace, they know and admit they were wrong, but it's neither here nor there now. R has been in control most of the time.

He's doing well now - he's happy enough - he chooses where he goes and where he stays and what he does. He says jump - and someone usually does tho he may have to wait for a little bit. He get's what he wants but is maturing well. He doesn't have to go to school. He stays in bed until the afternoon. He's up all nite. Reality is knocking at his door now all his friends have taken their exams and are going onto sixth form and R hasn't been education for 5 years. His choice. He chose not to engage. His payback is "you put me in care". His payback is he will stay with my friend or my Mom - and they will allow it. They never say NO. One day he'll realise his choices weren't so great - I won't take responsibility for the choices he made. Meantime - he won't ever come to terms with being "unlovable" as he sees it. He is lovable. I love my son.




I have managed to learn to live with that. I am getting help - I have been for a long time. I can live with not having R in my life everyday. I know that he is OK without me. He has been for a long time. What I am having a problem with is everyone telling me what they are doing for him outside of the care setting, being told my mom is cooking his sausage and mash and blah blah blah daily and expecting me to be jumping for joy that he chooses not to see or speak to me or his brother and that everyone else must be far better than me as a mother figure.

Being told silently - they can keep him happy, then whining about what they have to do when they shouldn't be doing it and that I don't do anything or that "aren't you interested in what he's doing?" DAILY. Being told by Mom "I can't make him come and see you, I've tried bribing him"... I don't want him "made to come see me"... he's fine, I'm fine - just LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LEAVE IT ALONE. I don't need to know he's there laughing and joking and all his friends thinking you are the best thing since sliced bread because you allow him to do what he wants. She enjoys that - when all the kids are in town in a group and they shout her name out loud across the street "J - REEEEESPECT". Don't tell me, I don't want to know. I've asked her not to tell me.

If there's a problem. I sort it. Other than that. LEAVE IT ALONE. R is OK. I am OK. LEAVE IT ALONE.

and don't tell me my garden "used to be beautiful and is now a weed garden". DON'T.




OK.... I wrote this a couple hours ago and I'm feeling a lot better about stuff now. I am strong. I can walk away from this feeling.

So, going to sleep for a couple hours, then in the car, and off to FQ. HardRockCalling is calling.

Thanku for the cheese - I' ve finished the whine. DONE.

Hey JPB - yep - will try and sleep for a bit and leave in a couple hours. Haven't packed yet... might not pack a bag - can live in FQ clothes. Just want to get out now but not safe to drive until I've zzzzzzzz'd. I don't know if I can zzzzz - but will go lie down and breathe in, breathe out.

Will let you know before I set off.

I'm looking forward to going. It's gonna be the best weekend.

Definitely gets some zzzzzzzzzs before you leave.

Oxygen, hun.

Seems to me that what you'd like from your mother, your friend & perhaps others (?) is to consider your feelings when they talk about R with you. That not so much to ask, you know, Iz - a bit of tact, a bit of consideration, a bit sensitivity.....

Hey Izzie

have a good weekend, just enjoy, life is too short not to, speak when you get back
X

Oh man Izzie.
I just found this thread, and dont know what to say.

You have been my friend through all manner of things, and now I want to return the help you have given me.

It sounds like leting R go was the best thing you could have done.
He knows that no matter what, you will be there for him so that gives him the courage to spread his wings.
That does not excuse the things he has said to you, and it never will.

All I can say is the same thing everyone else has.
Anytime you need a shoulder to cry on, or someone to yell at and throw things at, we are here for you.
Remember this, we all love you, and will be here for you anytime, even those of us on this side of the pond.

And if it helps, if you still have my number feel free to call me at anytime, 24 hours a day.
And if you dont have it, I will give it to you again.
I will always be here to listen, to give you someone to scream at, or just to give you a place to hide for a few minutes.

Please take care of yourself, because this forum (and world) will be a slightly darker place without your spirit and your sunshine.

Thank you everyone... I needed you all today and as always, you were all here. Thanku. Just knowing I can say stuff out loud here - brings me some peace. I know, it's my head - I need to stop it hurting myself. I will. Working on it.

I am in Essex now with FQ - we will enjoy our weekend.

What's done is done now - and I musn't stress any more at things I have no control over.

I feel good tonite with FQ - she makes me complete - my soulmate.

Hard Rock Calling - it's going to be FAB!

Thank You.... so much all. xxxx

A soul mate sometimes is our strength, our saviour, our guardian angel, our sanity. That's a tough assignment to pile on a great friend, but each of us is or has been all that to somebody, and I think those who can accept that kind of strength (I don't all that well) are those who most give it. So I know you are grateful for FQ, and she for you, and all of us are grateful for you too.

But let's face it. As much as we love them, sometimes certain people in our family just suck. And everybody who thinks they are helping aren't. And some who are sure they are so right are the ones who are wrong, and usually they can't see that. And sometimes they contribute to making life more miserable, and it is little comfort knowing they don't intend to do that. And now and then some people are so miserable they are just mean. On purpose. And it does hurt.

So I hope you're having a great, healing, and restoring weekend Izzie. I can't tell you how many times you have lifted my spirit or made me feel more human at times when I just didn't. And like all your other many friends have said, I hope you feel you can lean on me too.

And remember that the sun does always eventually come out. And when it does, it is good.

Hey Hey

All is good. In fact. All is better than good in my world.



So...... I have a couple things I need to clear out of the box and need some collective wisdom please

It’s not really about me, in that I’m here but quite sturdy and sound " it’s about S-boy.



I’m at a place where I try not to let anything hurt anymore. I believe. I’m not so sure this is a good thing or a bad thing or anything really. I try not to think about it unless I’m asked " which I was, yesterday.

All I know is that a couple of months ago " after giving my eldest son’s birth certificate to his carers (I don’t really wish to go into those feelings again) " that I shut down that place in my heart " thus making me a cold-hearted gal these days, albeit, life is getting better and better and I’m feeling very alive.

It’s like, I took out my heart and put it in a box somewhere so I couldn’t feel it bleed any longer. I see it bleed, I have pictures of my son around the house " and up until yesterday " I have had no contact with him since a phonecall 2 months back, whenever it was. His choice... and mine.

Now the thing is " I don’t feel anything. Well, I feel good but I don't feel bad. I don’t hurt anymore because I won’t allow myself to think about him, or other’s here " he’s always there " every time I look at S-boy I see him " S-boy is now 12 " I lost R when he was S-boys age. Lost, as in, he went into care. I know he’s alright - I get told often he's just fine.

Anyhooooo " I know what I’m doing and I seem to be in control of my life and holding my dominion (which, compared to a while back, is about time really). However, in taking that control back " I don’t seem to have the capacity to feel. No, that’s not quite right " I won’t allow myself to feel anyone’s hurt or to hurt me. I know it’s still there, right on the edge, and I could suddenly crash and burn if I allowed it " but I’m not allowing it. That means, I think " when I ought to feel a certain way, you know, how a mother should feel or act, or how a daughter or sister or friend should act " I don’t. Not just about R-boy, about lots of things.

For instance " I cannot feel for my family. I can say I love them and I know I do " but they, and most people here in immediate real life, can say or do anything " and it washes completely over the top of me. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing " I suppose I’ve made that choice on how to deal with stuff, or not as the case may be " however, the little fella is gonna struggle tonite, tomorrow, over the weekend, whenever " and this is where I need some advice.

I spoke to R-boy yesterday. He turns 17 on Saturday. He has told me that he does not want us, or a family, he does not want to see us or talk to us and that he is not my son and I am not his mother. OK " so when he said it, it doesn't cut me like it used to " I didn’t respond other than to say that we’re here if he wishes to see us or talk to us, etc " but my problem comes in how I am going to try and explain this to the little fella. I’ve been muddling through the last few years and trying to find a balance with R&S " R makes choices and S doesn’t have a choice " not a conscious choice anyway " it’s hurting him a lot these days.

R-boy is semi-independent " I try to think of him as not being 17 " but more like 25 or 40 or whatever age where, if he had left home and was getting on with his life, that not seeing him on or around his birthday or anytime really or not being “permitted” to give him a birthday pressie or card or whatever, even a phone call, that it wouldn’t be an issue. I can live with his decisions on that... I live with my decisions too

R-boy says he will not talk to or wishes to see his brother for at least a few more years. I cannot force him to do this.

A few months ago S-boy was in the town whilst staying at his Dad’s. He knew R would be at my friends house so took it upon himself to turn up there just so he could see R. R went mad. S-boy left. It ended in teart and I didn’t find out until much later!!!!!!!!!!!

S-boy was at school last nite " when I phoned him he asked for his brother’s telephone number because he was missing him and desperately wanted to talk to him. I told him I didn’t have R’s number on me (not true) but that we would talk about it tonite. I’m not sure I know quite how to manage the hurt that S-boy is going to feel, and feels already, when he finds out that he will not be seeing his brother or that he can talk with him again, until R-boy decides he can. Of course, it’s been that way for a long time and I suppose maybe I thought R may mature into feeling towards his little brother - but... no

The hurt is showing more with S-boy now. He’s looking for his brother " he needs to see him. It could be S-boy just needs to have that physical reassurance that he can SEE that R is OK. He grew up seeing the not so good things " but my verbal reassurance that all is OK now with R-boy, it just isn’t enough for him.

He has a big brother. He wants to see his brother.

You see " it’s alright for me because I have that shut-down. I do that with a lot of people now (in fact I did it not 15 minutes ago with someone! Lalallalala) " those who I know can hurt me " and, rightly or wrongly, I am doing well. I love life. I love those who I allow around me and who I choose to be with.

S-boy doesn’t have that luxury. He worships his big brother. He desperately wants his big brother. He cries for him all the time. I understand that. I used to do that. Quite honestly, I have no idea how to get S-boy to understand why his brother chooses not to see him or even speak to him. It is hard enough as an adult to understand, leave alone a child.

However, I do the same to my family and others now. "Leave me alone - you won't hurt me again"

Now. I am not working tomorrow or the weekend. I know R is at his flat. I could turn up. I could get there and R can decide whether he chooses to see me, or not. I said to myself that I won’t put myself in that position again " I have done that before and been refused entry into the house " because R decides who he will or won’t see " and of course, as the child, it matters not whether anyone else has feelings. I do understand why he does that " I mean, it’s the same as I do now. Vicious circle really. He told me yesterday that it makes him feel worse if he talks to us or sees us. He says he was expecting me to call him around his birthday. He has never enjoyed his birthdays " so, I’m not going to let that upset me " nor do I wish to upset him by turning up just because it’s his birthday. The little fella is NOT going to understand tho. I don't know how to explain it to him.

Of course, S-boy will be alright in the long term I believe " he is at school and doing well (well, he’s not overly academic, but he has the security and stability of school and seems to be happy)- and as those who have met him know, he has quite a strong wee personality. He does carry a bittersweet burden tho " that being that he has "a family", a Mom, a Dad, dawgs and kitties " and R-boy, in his eyes, doesn’t. He carries a lot of guilt for being the “good” child " unfounded, but that’s how he feels. He get's mad, at times, that I am a mother to him and not to R - he does understand why that is but does not understand why I don't cry like he does anymore. He did see a counsellor for quite a while when things were particularly difficult with R-boy and S-boy still has the memories of things no child should ever see " he is fiercly protective of his brother " but that comes with a heavy weight on his shoulders.

The everyday we seem to cope with " this weekend is going to be painful for him. I haven’t mentioned R-boys birthday to him. I know that literally an hour or so after I called R, that his father also called him " because his father then called me and asked me what I was going to do about it. I hung up on him after a rather terse debate that I have no choice in Ryan’s decisions " that they are his and his alone. Apparently I should be doing more and that R is just exacting his revenge. Okayyyyyyyyyy - tosser.

Their father has “a life” now which doesn’t include his children " he “agrees” to have S-boy every other weekend, but it’s very obviously a bind on his time. We cannot discuss it. It’s too emotive. We will always disagree on it. S-boy has cried about that this week. He spent Sunday at his Dad’s " but his Dad “wasn’t there” " he was, but paid S-boy no attention and told him ‘he is not there to make S-boys life fun’ (ditto tosser) " S-boy is making his own decisions about where he wishes to be " but with those decisions, he again feels guilty that he should WANT to be at his Dad’s " and he does " but he knows he is not a priority any longer. That is so sad.

Now, both children who believe their father doesn’t want them.

One child who believes neither parents wanted him.

What a family.

I would say “how does that happen?” " but that would be going back to the past and there are no answers. That’s a step back.

It is sad tho.

So, for those who do or don’t know me, I’m asking how to help S-boy. The hurt is there and it’s going to increase tremendously " of course, as he matures he should understand better " but today is today and I’m just not sure that I have enough “feeling” left to protect S-boy from his own pain. No parent wishes their child to hurt. Both my kids hurt.

I suggested to S-boy we went away for Christmas this year " oh, this was a while back before we came to the US. He was vehement in his reply. “What sort of mother would leave their child at Christmas. You have to be here in case R wants us AND what about Dad and Granny & Grampa?” (completely out of character for S-boy to be that way - nasty towards me - as if I truly were the she-devil). I don’t believe I have ever seen him so angry with me. The sad thing is.... his Dad won’t mind at all if S-boy is there or not and the chances of R-boy having anything to do with us are pretty remote. Of course, my parents would be terribly hurt.

Last year R&S’s father would not come see them on Christmas Day " well, no, that’s not strictly true " he asked to come here and be in my house to “do Christmas” with the boys, but he refused to take them to his house. I told him it would not be appropriate to play happy families in my home for an hour or so and it would have been really difficult for R-boy, he would not be able to do that " however, I suggested that he could take them over to his place with his partner for a few hours. He refused. He didn’t see them. Then he refused to allow R-boy to stay at his house on Boxing Day when he did see them " R-boy is not allowed to stay there.



No matter. That’s by the by. Just a thought dropped in.


Sooooooooo.... there it is.

I see things differently to way back when. Works for me. Life is much improved for S-boy " his life is so much happier when I am happy " that is as it should be. I certainly know that S-boy has a good and blessed life.

It’s like, for me now, I’ve cut out the sad pieces that were making me sick, got better and started living again. Of course, that may be true or not " but it’s working. That’s all fine and dandy for me. Not for a little boy tho who cannot reconcile why his brother won’t see or talk to him. He’s just a kid.

I don’t know whether to get him to do a birthday card for his brother, or not. R-boy will not look at it, but it will make S-boy feel better " but then he will feel worse because he can’t see R and it may make R feel worse too. It’s not that this is a huge deal " you know, nothing compared to how life was before " but it is a big deal to both the kids today, tomorrow etc " in opposite ways. Either way " they both hurt in their way whereas I appear to be in lala land and am the things that R says.

How do I explain something to S-boy, when I don’t really know how to explain it?

Nothing is going “wrong”. Just need a little advice about how to reassure S-boy about his brother.

If I think on it too much " the pain starts creeping back " so that’s why I’m putting it here (terribly selfish really, but hey ho). It’s hard to explain stuff to S-boy when I continue to keep those feelings at bay and feel better in myself and value myself more.



For those who don’t know S-boy " well, this is a discussion we just had. Not a discussion " he just told me that his PSHE teacher (she adores the little fella) nearly cried today. He had to write an essay in 15 mins " the subject matter was “The Meaning Of Life”

In brief - S-boys words on his essay...

The meaning of life is this. You take all the opportunities you can, you live every moment, you try and do as much as you can and enjoy it and then that goes into your soul. You must make everything that you can and make it good. When you die, your soul is still here and it creates something new, it could be a person or an animal or a plant. That’s the meaning of life.

For 12, he’s pretty intuitive.

Oh Izzie.

((Izzie)) I have absolutely no wisdom or insight here. I wish I did. Thoughts are with you and S and you know my prayers - always.

Love you...

It is very tough for S-boy, Izzie. You are sensitive to S-boy and have thought this problem through in your usual, very thorough way.

On the bright side, S-boy's essay shows that he has learned a great deal about life. S-boy is growing emotionally, and may be able to find a way to cope with not seeing his brother.

Izzie, your two boys remind me of the short story, "The Scarlet Ibis". The main theme is:

There is within us, and with saddness I have seen it in other, a cruelty bourne by the stream of love.

It happens in all families, honey. It happened with my two kids as well.

Oh Iz-, like Mis- I'm not sure I have any real advice either! You're a good mum. I guess I would say, just be as honest and forthright as you can. Leave the rest.
Funny, I was going to post here myself, but it all seems so inconsequential now. Maybe later. Big squeezes to you and S-boy! Miss you!

You cannot compare your burdens to other's Dev - if they weigh heavy on you - they are heavy. E-mail me or note me on FB.

Thank lovelies - all of you ... i'm listening

Dev hun - hey, we're buddies right - hey you are the Queen with the tiara and believe me, my probs will all resolve - you see I can post, switch off and carry on dancing back on the comfortable deck - because it's 'out there and I know people will listen and can come back to me putting the thoughts into some semblance of order. Better than me trying to work out what I can't - when someone is looking from the outside - sometimes it can be be oh so very clear to see.

This is a thread for anyone who's on an edge or just feeling edgy. There are no degrees of what's more so toppling or less so sturdy - your feelings are as real as anyones - there's no judgement, just some ears 'ere.

please do write when you can - you know us now... KNOW us and know we care - so we will be here you and listen if you need to blah bleugh blah.

it's your friends who make your world... they are chosen family with whom you can confide (on the internet - that's a reach - but a reach that helps me pull back.)

Here hun if you wish to talk - always

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((DEV)))))))))))))))))))))))))

you have my email and PM too - anytime girlie.

Thanks, girlie! I will. Got my 'rents coming over in a few, which is a stresser. They are bringing cupcakes for Thing 2's birthday which was last Sunday. More about that later, especially if they tick me off! lol Just a little background ... Mom's been writing these 'needy', why don't we see or hear from you more e-mails and that she's all concerned about me ... blah, blah, blah. I suppose what's more is that my parents were abusive to us kids growing up. Yes, I have a relationship with them but, at best, it can be described as shallow. AND btw , she has the emotional depth of a pancake! ... Do I sound bitter? lol
Also, they have not had any of the therapy I've had dealing with the past. Their motto is "the past is the past; keep it there". So, to say that they are going to actually acknowledge, admit and or apologize for aforementioned abuse is laughable to me. It's so true that bully's are much less affected by their abuse than the abuse- ees!
Anyway, my feeling is that I do not need this woman in my kool-aid! Just thinking about them coming over has put me on edge. I'm afraid she's gonna want to try to talk about my "stuff", which I feel at this point is none of their bloody business!
Sorry, really old stuff for me. Just getting down to some brass tacks in my emotional growth, I guess. The older the wound, the more primal the emotions that go with it.
Ok, didn't know I'd get all THAT out! Not reading this back for fear that I won't send it, so I apologize for any disjointed craziness!! Got any questions, ask away! It'll help me get it out. Thanks so much for listening, y'all. I feel better already, as always.

Still thinking about and praying for you, Iz-! Love you!

Hey Dev - have you told your Mom about your own dealings with the past? Does she just pooh-pooh it and try to move on?