SHOULD SEN. LARRY CRAIG RESIGN?

How anyone can listen to that tape, read the transcript, consider Craig's dilemma, past history, etc and not easily conclude who is lying (Craig) and who is truthful (the cop) is incomprehensible.

Reports are that Craig may announce his resignation today.

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The bathroom incident occurred June 11th. Craig pled guilty in August.

He certainly had plenty of time to come to his senses if he felt was being bullied by the police officer.

Written transcript of the interviw by the officer is here -
http://www.startribune.com/587/story/1392960-p2.html

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Craig should not resign because...

- He is gay: Who cares?
- He solicted a policeman: He pleaded to a misdemenor and if he'd gone to court, he'd probably have walked. No big deal.
- He's a hypocrit: I don't think he is. He doesn't like homosexuals, has routinely voted that way, represented himself that way and is doing everything possible not to come out of the closet due to self hate. Very consistent.
- He misled his constituents: His voting record is very consistent with the platform he ran on. No issues there.

Craig should resign because....

- He refuses to take responsibility for his own actions, instead blaming everyone else.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Let's be clear though - there's no allegedly to it. He did break the law. He pled guilty in court to doing so.

Some accusations -- even when wrongful -- can end someone's career if publicized. When somebody makes such an accusation against me, I may well plead guilty myself even if I'm not. I might just try to save my career by doing whatever I think most likely to keep the affair quiet. Roxxxanne may find this incomprehensible, and ehBeth may lose her respect for me, and you may insist that if I plead guilty I always am. Nevertheless, I can easily imagine situations where I would myself plead guilty when in fact I'm innocent. And Craig's is one of those situations.

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But without the constant rumors of Craig being gay, why would have had pled guilty? Why would it ruin his career to stand up if falsely accused? It is because of the rumors that he had reason to plead and hope it went away. The rumors also make it much more likely that he was doing what the police say he was.

Craig had almost 2 months to decide what to do. He made that decision without consulting anyone that we know of. That to me is a man embarrassed by his own actions, not someone falsely accused but trying to make it go away without the public knowing.

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He did have a fairly good chance to be acquitted so I don't know what attorney he consulted but, for one thing, many times the officer doesn't even show up in court. I've know several people in my lifetime and this kind of arrest was rampant in Hollywood gay bars before the laws changed who went to court and either the officer didn't show up or the judge was miffed that they waste tax payer's money on borderline entrapment arrests and dismisses the case. The other side of the coin is if there have been many complaints by people who use the particular restrooms with being hit on or obvious exposure.

It even happens with what still on the books as lewd conduct and in several cases I know of, the officer doesn't show up or because there was no third party witness, the attorney managed to get the judge to dismiss the case. You have to practically take it out of your pants and jo in front of the officer.

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Thomas wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Let's be clear though - there's no allegedly to it. He did break the law. He pled guilty in court to doing so.

Some accusations -- even when wrongful -- can end someone's career if publicized. When somebody makes such an accusation against me, I may well plead guilty myself even if I'm not. I might just try to save my career by doing whatever I think most likely to keep the affair quiet. Roxxxanne may find this incomprehensible, and ehBeth may lose her respect for me, and you may insist that if I plead guilty I always am. Nevertheless, I can easily imagine situations where I would myself plead guilty when in fact I'm innocent. And Craig's is one of those situations.

As third party observers with no first-hand information on the subject, we only have one avenue for making an informed decision on this subject, and that is the Court of Law; the understanding that decisions made in court are binding is, after all, the underpinning of American society.

Craig took a chance when he plead guilty, that nobody would find out about it. His chance backfired when it was revealed. I don't have a lot of pity for people who plead guilty in hopes of keeping people from finding out about a criminal investigation.

Cycloptichorn

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parados wrote:

But without the constant rumors of Craig being gay, why would have had pled guilty?

Because a trial is part of the public record. Rumors aren't.

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I agree completely with Thomas.

He was in an embarrassing situation and took the option that was most likely to cause the least embarrassment.

His other option was to do to court, which would have certainly been public and would have been as bad as what happened.

His guilty plea is understandable-- even if it wasn't true.

In all honesty, I might have done the exact same thing.

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I'm thinking he needs to stay and sponsor a bill to make gay marriage legal, homosexual acts legal, and prostitution legal.

Then he wouldn't have to worry about getting caught with his foot tapping an officer during his "wide stance" moments.

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squinney wrote:

I'm thinking he needs to stay and sponsor a bill to make gay marriage legal, homosexual acts legal, and prostitution legal.

Then he wouldn't have to worry about getting caught with his foot tapping an officer during his "wide stance" moments.

I second Squinney's motion. Smile

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

As third party observers with no first-hand information on the subject, we only have one avenue for making an informed decision on this subject, and that is the Court of Law;

Maybe we have no avenue at all for making an informed decision on this subject. Maybe we should be more reluctant to make decisions on whether politicians should resign. (Not that I expect myself to take my own advice on this very often.)

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Thomas wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
As third party observers with no first-hand information on the subject, we only have one avenue for making an informed decision on this subject, and that is the Court of Law;

Maybe we have no avenue at all for making an informed decision on this subject. Maybe we should be more reluctant to make decisions on whether politicians should resign. (Not that I expect myself to take my own advice on this very often.)

Well, I thought he should have resigned before this, so this merely added fuel to my previously-held belief.

Cycloptichorn

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The word is he may resign before this day is over.

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Ah, the Supreme Court made homosexuals acts legal. In the privacy of behind closed doors. Not out in public. But he could reverse himself on gay marriage, although that could be construed as really letting the cat out of the bag. I don't believe his innocent "spreading my legs so my shoe enters the other stall to make contact with the that persons shoe" but I do believe he might spread his legs in other instances. I don't believe the "picking toilet paper off the floor" and accidentally gesturing with his hand on the other wide of the wall. BS. Period.

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The arrest was most likely a violation of Craig's constitutional privacy rights. Had he gone to trial, he probably would have beat the rap. However, he took a chance that the matter would remain private should he plead guilty.

Now, Craig's career is in the toilet (pun intended).

The question now is whether the Gay Old Party will find a mens room sufficiently large to cover their 2008 convention.

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As I stated, not many of these cases end in conviction. It's really to scare away the toilet queens from the particularly active john so anybody (including gay men that don't indulge in that "sport") can use the toilet without being harassed. However, many states still have lewd conduct laws that are very unclear on details as described and leave it up to the judge whether or not it's crossed the line. There's almost always the option of pleading guilty to disturbing the peace but if your well known, it's gambling that it will break into the news.

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My opinion in a nutshell:

A perverse legal system takes down a hypocritical defender of the system.

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I think that Craig would have excellent representation had he gone to trial. His attorneys would point out that the subdued solicitation in this case was not conduct, but was protected, and private, speech.

Certainly, had Craig then engaged in sex in a public place, he probably would be guilty. I say probably because there may be a question on whether the stall was a private place.

It would be an interesting case.

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I was really disgusted to see John McCain say that Craig should resign.

You may recall that McCain was one of the Keating Five in the S&L scandal, which cost the taxpayers half a trillion dollars. He had accepted many gifts and trips from Keating, and then helped lead the way toward deregulating the S&L industry.

He should have resigned back then. Instead, he is a Gay Old Party presidential hopeful.

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SHOULD SEN. LARRY CRAIG RESIGN?

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