52
   

Osama Bin Laden is dead

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 12:19 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Hawkeye sorry but what's A2K. It's not a term we use this side of the pond

Oh, you are a n00b.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 12:20 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Hawkeye sorry but what's A2K. It's not a term we use this side of the pond
Able2Know, where most of the most active members are American or Canadian. We are extremely personality driven, as anyone who watches national politics can plainly see.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 12:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

This forum is not what I would consider a reliable source for news and members are not subject to journalistic ethics.


True. Still, have you ever wondered what the various columnists would be willing to published if they knew they would be immediately challenged on their undocumented statements and vague generalities?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 12:41 pm
@Ticomaya,
You're right I am. I feel a bit of a dickhead now.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 12:49 pm
@roger,
I first came to this site because I wanted to know what the term 'white bread' meant. When I googled it, it popped up. I heard it on The Simpsons from the song everyone hates Ned Flanders. Apu says of Flanders 'He's so white bread.' I thought Apu was threatening to kill Flanders. Which I thought was a bit macabre for Apu. I don't think that now. The reason I thought it though was because of rhyming slang. A friend of mine once said of a neighbour. 'I told him, if he lit another bonfire when I put the washing out he was brown bread' Brown bread - Dead.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 01:31 pm
izzy, take a look at the top of the page, able2know, a2k. Go Southampton, Go Finn, Go Obama. Begone, Osama.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 01:46 pm
@roger,
Who is going to challenge them? Their peers who do it too?

Heard today that it's not just the media who can't get the details right.

John Brennan has been telling the media Osama used his wife as a human shield.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 02:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I think you're correct about quick-draw reporting. I think my interest in this event has shifted from interest in Osama to how it's being processed emotionally, and politically.

There has been reporting from the WH about national togetherness and bipartisanship etc. I agree, but maybe for different reasons. I've found no real trend in celebratory moods along political boundaries. A friend of mine whom I debate religion with rather frequently shared his Christian sentiments about the idea of celebrating death and how ugly it is quoting:

"In front of the death of man, a Christian never rejoices but rather reflects on the grave responsibility of each one in front of God and men, and hopes and commits himself so that every moment not be an occasion for hatred to grow but for peace."

-Father Federico Lombardi

While, not a Christian, I relate to this sentiment and I do feel a common unity with an ideology that in many other aspects of society I do not as often get to bond. I saw many liberal friends bond with many conservative friends with statements about dragging Osama's body behind a car.

I simply don't want to bond over that. I'd rather bond over what we build together, not simply a bond over who we share a common emotion: Hate.

There was one piece of commentary that struck me particularly striking. Thomas Friedman when discussing the American identity post 9/11, and our unity said this:

‎"Our day is not Sept 11th, our day is the Fourth of July."

I've reflected a lot about how defining 9/11 has been, and honestly, how that has moved us away from a real common heritage on something we built together. I'd rather see us bonding over that, not easily digestible villains. I think that's something that I'd not have to convince anyone on the other side of the fence is true.

I'm sure Obama will get a popularity bump for this. It was literally a campaign promise. I find myself wishing other campaign promises were what we were bonding over. He's still got my vote right now, and I'm not downplaying the symbolic victory, but I find myself still wanting more.

A
R
T
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 02:43 pm
@failures art,
Agreeing with you both, for once.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 02:46 pm
@ossobuco,
George ob. I see that the ship that did Osama's last rights was the CArl Vincent.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 02:53 pm
I don't really get what the quick-draw reporting is in reference to.

On A2K, we have a long history of being a sort of news aggregator during important events -- that goes back to actual 9/11, on Abuzz. Posting pertinent news reports as we see them.

I tend to come here first when there is any big event, read through quickly to see approximately where things are, then branch out to my usual sources to get more details and start adding them if they haven't already been added or if they seem to indicate that previous reports that had been posted were wrong.

I don't see anything wrong with that, nor with news organizations reporting things to the best of their knowledge, (so long as they have enough caveats about how certain they are about something/ where they got the info). It's the nature of these things to start out sketchy and not completely accurate and then start to become more specific and clear.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 03:48 pm

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2011/0503/Osama-bin-Laden-conspiracy-theories-race-across-the-world

Osama bin Laden conspiracy theories race across the world
The quick burial of Osama bin Laden and the decision not to release photos of his body are sparking wild rumors, not just in Pakistan and the Arab world, but also in Europe and the US.

Less than 48 hours after the White House announced the killing of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan and his burial at sea, "conspiracy theories" are racing across the planet.

.The quick burial of Mr. bin Laden and the decision not to release photos of his body were part of a White House strategy to prevent revulsion throughout the Muslim world. But the lack of public proof of his death is sparking wild rumors, not just in Pakistan and the Arab world, but also in Europe and the US.

Among the radical assertions bouncing around the Internet: bin Laden was dead before the attack; he is still alive; the DNA that was supposed to be bin Laden's was inconclusive; and that the White House concocted a raid just to ensure President Obama's reelection. That's just to name a few.

The glut of conspiracy theories suggests a more general breakdown of traditional media’s authority in an era of text-messaging, Twitter, and instant “clarity” by far-flung experts, analysts say.

“More than simply a surfeit of conspiracy theory, [there is] a crisis of confidence between authorities and citizens," writes Bruno Fay, French author of a book on the spread of conspiracy theories called "Plot-ocracy," in the French magazine Nouvel Observateur. “Behind these plot concepts are all those who do not believe anymore in authorities. The situation today is: how to believe the authorities when bin Laden's death has not been transparent? By saying that, I am not saying that I believe in conspiracies.”

Mr. Fay notes that some 15 percent of people polled in a 2008 World Public Opinion survey managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland felt the US was responsible for the 9/11 attack. Some 8 percent of French agreed, and the figure reached 40 percent in some Muslim-majority nations.

Much of what passes for “theories” the day after a dramatic story are often, in fact, personal extrapolations melded to fit strongly held beliefs based on unclear information and a broad new proclivity not to trust traditional media.


Indeed, “conspiracy” fits the times, analysts say. Former fringe story spinners – often racists or presumed odd balls – that believe the US moon landing was faked, or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or that 9/11 was a US “inside” plot, have given way to more acceptable cultish views in an age of 1,000 TV channels, social media, and WikiLeaks. Mass belief in alternate narratives is part of the 21st century zeitgeist.

Only last week, Mr. Obama put forward documentation from Hawaii that scotched a “birther” theory that asserts Obama was not born in the US. More than 40 percent of registered Republican voters believed that false assertion, brought to a head by tycoon Donald Trump, according to a recent CBS News/New York Times survey.

As for the conspiracy theories surrounding bin Laden's death, Special US Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Mark Grossman was at a loss to explain them at a press conference in Islamabad today.

“I can’t answer every conspiracy theory [coming from] every place," said Mr. Grossman. "Osama
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:17 pm
@BillRM,
He was recently see in LAs Vegas riding with ELvis
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:29 pm
@farmerman,
Carl Vinson. Meanwhile my own question in re legal strictures for burials at sea was answered: Osama's body was weighed down by some unnamed load. Everybody and his kid brother has satellites, it's hard to conceal a carrier, so next thing that happens is wait for rental submarines to look for OBL's remains.

How broke are we, exactly? How deep is the Arabian Sea at that point? Can we rent out any submarines at exorbitant rates? Sorry - worrying about deficits Smile
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:33 pm
@BillRM,
The Monitor's article you posted, BillRM, somewhat negated the need for a little essay I have mulling over today. But here are some remnants of what I have been thinking about.
The Photo
Humans tend to be visual. We, for whatever reason want to see the dead body of Osama in order to convince ourselves that what we hear is true. In American society, and perhaps in others, we have a morbid curiosity of things (which is why we tend to rubberneck at accident scenes.) And perhaps we distrust the government, and the media, much more than we did a few decades ago.
In any event the Obama people will probably resist releasing a photo of Osama with half his head blown away. It will not satisfy the domestic conspiracy theorists and will only inflame tense relations in other parts of the world.
What do you all think should be done;
> release the photo to the public
> show the photo to senior members of Congress
> show the photo to select media personnel
> show the photo to leaders of our allies and to Al-Qaeda
> other
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:35 pm
@realjohnboy,
Somebody will leak the photo. I have no doubt at all.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:38 pm
According to Channel 4 . There were some raids and arrests following a car stopped acting suspiciously by Sellafield nuclear powerstation the day after Bin Laden was killed. They say they don't think it's connected to Bin Laden, but they wouldn't be saying that if it was dissident republicans. This is in the UK by the way.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:53 pm
@engineer,
Revenge is an integral part of Justice .

Quote:
seeing Americans cheering in the street would have the same impact on them that their cheering did after 911 did on us
As for having the same impact, perhaps they managed to see how awful they looked to the west .

Survival is not a fair system, it is the only one that works and in the battle for one system something has to give . Or we have to accept each other.....tell the Jews not to worry about survival, the Arabs will accept them . In the meantime, it is war....brought on by those with far more hate in them then the people cheering the death of Rubbish bin Laden .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:57 pm
@JTT,
There goes your selective memory again . I am sorry your boyfriend only got two bullets in the head...three would have been better .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 04:58 pm
@JTT,
The majority of people dont give a rats about politics....dont reflect badly on them because you are delusional .
0 Replies
 
 

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