Osama Bin Laden is dead

Erm...I think flag-waving and chanting, "We're better than you!" inspires a lot of resentment in people from other countries and cultures, yes. And I suspect that that sort of thing would probably eventually result in a few more terrorist attacks, yes.

That said, I'd never condone restricting anyone's freedom of speech, short of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre sort of thing, of course.

So, while I thing it's counter-productive, I would never support gov't action to suppress it.

How can you say that, Engineer? The historical record is so clear. What part of the US overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and installed a brutal dictator don't you understand. The US then had the CIA train the Shah's SAVAK in highly efficient methods of torture.

This scenario has been repeated so many times across the globe by the US that it astounding that you could even suggest such a thing. Look at the hugely disproportionate response of the US to 9-11 and then ask yourself,

Are Americans the only people who could feel such anger; what about when the numbers killed by American terrorism are 4 million; 50,ooo; 3 million; 1 million; 30,000; 100,000; 750,000?

We're not really a nation of flag wavers. But Southampton was full of flags yesterday. Not because of Bin Laden though, but because the football team got promoted. It was the front page of our local paper Southern Daily Echo. Bin Laden's capture was a little picture at the top next to the title, other news.

To be honest I think we were the most jubilant. I know I was. I've been on a total high ever since.

As Winston Churchill said, "Two great nations, divided by a common language"--what does it mean when a football team (yes, I do know that's what we call soccer) gets PROMOTED?

But the vast majority of Americans have spent a lifetime encouraging this pathetic display of childish behavior.

FRONTLINE

Fighting for bin Laden
On air and online
May 3, 2011 at 9:00pm

In the aftermath of the killing of Osama bin Laden, FRONTLINE presents two inside views of the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban. First, Afghan journalist Najibullah Quraishi -- who reported last year's award-winning FRONTLINE film Behind Taliban Lines -- once again journeys deep inside enemy territory. This time, he gains extraordinary access to a band of militants and foreign fighters in Afghanistan who say they're loyal to bin Laden and are readying a Spring offensive against the U.S.

Then, FRONTLINE crosses the border into Pakistan, where correspondents Stephen Grey and Martin Smith go inside The Secret War against the militants. They uncover new details of a CIA "private army" of militiamen launching kill raids against al Qaeda and the Taliban inside Pakistan. They also find new evidence of covert support for elements of the Taliban by the Pakistani military and its intelligence service, the ISI. At a safe-house not far from where bin Laden was killed, they make contact with one mid-level Taliban commander who tells FRONTLINE, "If they really wanted to, [the Pakistanis] could arrest us all in an hour."


Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/fighting-for-bin-laden/?utm_campaign=fightingforbinladen&utm_medium=googlead&utm_source=alqaeda#ixzz1LJ05xS3T

The timing could not be worse for the hawks....it will be very difficult for Obama to get Congressional support for staying in the region even if he wanted to, which is not clear that he does. China is right to assume that Afghanistan and Pakistan will be their problem soon. I am not buying that our relationship with Pakistan is too long running and complex to end, I see enormous pressures on both sides to end it.

I'm not gouing to use the s word, it sounds too public schoolboy, like rugger. And they're the sort of people who don't play football anyway. Sorry I've probably made things even more obscure. First of all soccer is short for association football, as oppossed to rugby football, or american football. What you would call a public school we would call a state school. In the UK a public school is one of the few top private schools normally set up by some king in 13 something or other to educate the children of the local gentry. Eton is one, and both princes went there and our prime minister.

Anyway sorry to answer your question, in England there are four professional football leaques. The top one is the premiership, which is probably the most popular sporting league in the world. Then it's the championship, then league 1 and league 2. I know that sounds confusing, it used to be divisions 1,2,3 and 4 which is alot simpler.

Every season each football team plays every other football team in the same league twice. Home and Away. Win 3 points Draw 1 point lose ) points. At the end of every season all the points are added up. In the premiership the top four teams get to play for the European cup against other top European clubs. The three teams with the least points get demoted to the championship.

The top two teams in the championship get automatically promoted to the premiership the next four sides go into the play offs, against each other with the winner getting the third premiership place. And so on down the leagues with sides going up and down each season.

Southampton are currently in League 1. There is one final game left on Saturday so that's an extra 3 points. Southampton are on 2nd place with 89 points. The only side that can catch us are Huddersfield on 86. They could win on Saturday and we could lose. That would put us level on points. When that happens goal difference is looked at. All the goals you scored in the season minus all the ones you let in giving a + or - figure depending on how well you did. Our goal difference is + 46 Huddersfield's in +29. Meaning they would have to win 9-0 and we would have to lose 9-0. That's not going to happen. 4-0 is a really high score in football. So to all intents and purposes we're promoted to the championship, and hopefully next season we'll be promoted to the premiership which is the one that matters

The clear point that you seemed to have missed [who ever said that Americans are ignorant of the world at large and blind to their problems?] is that there is no reason at all for Pakistan, or really, any country to trust the US.

The US is perfidy personified.

Sorry for going on about football. Pakistan has the bomb, and for all its problems we get on better with them than North Korea. One rogue state with the bomb is enough, so Pakistan has got us all over a barrel.

Yes I think it is a wonderfull idea to leave the region once more and allowed the nuts to take over.

Pakistan has already sold nuclear technology to Gadaffi, supported muslim radicals against the US, and been responsible for terrorist attack on India....at some point we need to change the game, because we (civilization) seem to be losing this one. Letting China run the region likely will be the best chance for success.

Sometimes coming late to a thread can provide an interesting perspective.

One thing I've definitely noticed with this story in the news, is that reported details differ widely and daily. I suppose the media is so desperate to have something new to report, they will report anything and everything they come across. Interestingly enough, A2K members (at least on this thread) tend to follow suit, reporting, commenting upon, and sometimes even arguing about each new item of news that trickles out. If you've been frequently posting to the thread you may not even notice it.

This isn't a criticism. This forum is not what I would consider a reliable source for news and members are not subject to journalistic ethics. I do mean to criticize the legitimate news media though.

It will be some time yet before we have a clear and factual account of what happened, and even then I doubt we will ever know all the details. Certainly, there will always be enough sense that the full story has not been told so that kooky conspiracy theorists can have a nice long act of mental masturbation.

What is clear to me is that Bin Laden is dead, that our military and intelligence forces did an amazing job, and that Obama is to be congratulated.

I'm sure that even when they release the photos of his ruined body (which they should do ASAP ) there will be many who deny he was killed. Ultimately, it won't matter, as long as most of the world believes he was.

I have to say I found the news very unsatisfying. I always thought I would feel at least relieved when I learned he was dead and, frankly, exhilarated by news that our soldiers actually shot and killed him, but it was not the case.

I'm glad he's dead. He deserved to suffer a violent, fear filled death, and although it doesn't appear that he has been a practical force in the jihadi movement for some time now, he certainly was a symbolic one. In any case, it's a good thing that any value a living Bin Laden provided our enemies has been extinguished.

Maybe it's the fact that it's been ten years since his most infamous deed was perpetrated and the visceral desire for revenge has faded over the years. Maybe it's because his death will not end the war with Islamists, and there are still millions of our fellow human beings who refuse to acknowledge his evil and consider him a hero.

I would not say I have been offended by the celebrations in the US, but I feel no empathy with the participants. In fact it seems silly to me. Again, I'm glad he's dead and I'm very glad that our forces killed him, but I just don't see the reason to celebrate.

President Obama deserves congratulations, because it would have been very easy for him to muck the whole thing up based on political considerations, and he didn't. There may have been a political consideration and bet made on giving the GO order on the raid, but it's churlish to suggest that such a possibility diminishes the fact that he did the right thing and it succeeded wonderfully. Besides, this is something he promised during the campaign and he delivered: We found out where Osama was and we went it and got him. I guess it was a big risk for the country as well as him personally, but I approve of him taking it.

What is also clear to me is that it is ridiculous to worry that violating Muslim sensibilities by dancing in the streets or burying him at sea will result in new terrorists and new attacks. The people who will be pushed over the edge by such trivial concerns will find any reason to justify killing Americans. Instead, the terrorists need to worry about how violating American sensibilities by killing 3000 innocent people will result in Navy Seals knocking down the doors of their refuge and putting two bullets in their heads...boom, boom.

Good point.

Somehow I question if the Chinese will care about terrorist bases set up to annoy European or the US.

Take note of the **** poor record they had have up to this point in helping us deal with North Korea as a case in point.

It is because we personalize everything, you see that all over A2K were ideas are linked to the people who spoke them and then great effort is made to either support or diminish the speaker based upon our emotional reaction to what has been said. Intellectually we should know that Bin Laden has not been up to much in a long time, and that when we lop off the head of terrorist organizations that another one is grown rapidly, but emotionally killing Bin Laden feels like we have won, like the fight is over.

Worse than any of that, THEY FIXED SOME TEST MATCHES

Finn dAbuzz says
This forum is not what I would consider a reliable source for news and members are not subject to journalistic ethics.
So you knew Southampton had been promoted before you came on this thread did you?

Who knows whether such a tape even exists, but, if it does, I don't think it should ever be publicly aired by the media.

Hawkeye sorry but what's A2K. It's not a term we use this side of the pond