THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

ican wrote :

Quote:

If we maintain an effective surge long enough, the Iraqis themselves will come to develop the capability to defend themselves. That will of course be a win-win situation--Iraqi and Ameican win situation.

you would have to believe that the shias and sunnis would be able to become allies .
...
hbg

In the mean while, we get our soldiers killed and maimed, and spend some two billion every week in Iraq. Two-three generations, heh? What progress!

I'm with the majority of the American People that wants our troops home.
You do remember who the American People are, don't you? Seems Bush, the generals, and people like you have forgotten we once had a democracy where the People counted.

Authorities say Iraq has begun reopening its borders with Iran and Syria after a security crackdown.

The borders were fully closed for three days as part of an operation to crack down on sectarian and insurgent violence.

The Shalamchen border crossing to Iran, near the southern Iraqi city of Basra, has been cleared.

The US accuses Iran and Syria of allowing militants and weapons to be smuggled into Iraq but both countries deny the claims.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ordered the borders be temporarily closed last week to allow officials to upgrade security equipment and procedures.

The closure was part of a broader security operation in which thousands of extra US and Iraqi troops have been sent into Baghdad, the epicentre of a vicious civil war between rival Sunni and Shiite factions.

Iran, Syria strengthen ties

Meanwhile, the presidents of Iran and Syria are urging the region's Muslims to stay united in the face of US attempts to divide them.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is winding up a two-day trip to Iran.

Mr Assad and his Iranian counterpart, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, have pledged to work even more closely.

"With the current situation in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Palestine, there is even more need for us to consult and coordinate to face the plans of our enemies," Mr Ahmadinejad said.

The Syrian President says the US is trying to sow division amongst the region's different ethnic and religious groups.

"They want to push the peoples and the governments to make use of ethnicities and create divisions in the Islamic world," Mr Assad said.

"It is this final card that they are trying to play. If they succeed in this, they will succeed in all their plans."

The US has accused Syria of of fomenting the violence that has dogged Lebanon since the assassination of former prime minister Rafiq Hariri in 2005, while Iran is accused of arming the militant Shiite group, Hezbollah.

Both countries vehemently deny the charges.

ican, The Iraqis have had internal warfare for some 1,500 years before we arrived in their country. Our leaving will bring them back to where they were before Saddam's time.

It's for them to settle their civil war, insurgency, and insecurity.

All we accomplish by staying is to anger more Arab countries as occupiers, and Iraqis as the terrorists.

What do you think are the consequences for the American people if we do not succeed in Iraq?

ican asked :

Quote:

What do you think are the consequences for the American people if we do not succeed in Iraq?

i imagine that the first consequence will be that american soldiers will no longer be killed in iraq .

Will American soldiers after they leave Iraq have to be killed somewhere else?

remember that the united states eventually had to withdraw from vietnam , yet today seems to enjoy good diplomatic relations with the vietnamese government (i'm sure you are very well aware of that . a thought just struck me : perhaps you do not believe that the united states should have diplomatic relations with vietnam ? in that case i could understand your misgivings about iraq.)
do you believe that it would be impossible to re-establish diplomatic relations with an iraqi government even if the u.s. troops were withdrawn from iraq soon ?
3 million non-killer southeastern asians were mass murdered after the US pulled out of South Vietnam.

Yes, we have diplomatic relations with Vietnam. And yes, the US had diplomatic relations with Iraq while Saddam's regime mass murdered over a million Iraqi non-murderers. And Yes, we had diplomatic relations with Saddam's regime while al-Qaeda fled from Afghanistan to Iraq and was growing rapidly in Iraq.

So much for diplomatic relations.

i find it interesting that the u.s. government is continuing to try and find a non-aggressive (perhaps a diplomatic) solution to the north-korean problem , which - by the way - has been going on for a long time .
there has been no talk of "all options are on the table" , i believe .

i just have difficulty understanding why you seem think that the presence of u.s. troops in iraq is of such high priority .
i could see u.s. troops staying in iraq for a while if they were in fact able to protect th iraqi population from killers of all sorts - but every day there are more civilians being killed . i have to conclude that the u.s. troops simply do not have the power to bring peace to the people .

If we leave before the Iraqis can adequately defend themselves, far greater numbers of Iraqi non-murderers will be massed murdered daily than are mass murdered now.

there seems to be little action on the diplomatic front to bring the nations of the middle-east (including iran and syria) - or at least some of them - to the table to work on other (diplomatic , aid to civilians ...) solutions , to at least try to stabilize iraq .

i also notice that the major nations of asia (india , pakistan , japan to name just a few , but the list could be expanded) who might have a better understanding of eastern mentalities have little appetitite to become involved .

might the governments of those countries be willing to contribute to finding a "non-military" solution to the sectarian/civil war in iraq ?

to make my point as simple as posible : the military approach to bring peace to iraq has not been successful for about for about four years now .
i find it difficult to believe that "more of the same" will bring success .

]The US has now adopted a different strategy than the one we have been employing for the last four years. Instead of the defensive approach of protecting and training others to protect the Iraqi people from their killers, we are attacking the killers of the Iraqi people.

my comments are probably not even worth 2 cents , but here they are .
hbg.

2/18/2007 Status of War on Terror
NEWS UPDATES
Baghdad Security Plan Can Work
WASHINGTON, Feb. 16, 2007 — The new security plan being implemented in Baghdad will be successful if the United States remains dedicated to the mission and Iraqis commit to resolving their differences, the U.S. commander in charge of forces in the city said today. Story


Stability & Security in Iraq Report (pdf)
For Top News Visit DefenseLink

BACKGROUND


IRAQ

Renewal In Iraq
Iraq: Security, Stability
Fact Sheet: Progress and Work Ahead
Report: Strategy for Victory in Iraq
Iraq Daily Update
This Week in Iraq
Multinational Force Iraq
State Dept. Weekly Iraq Report
'Boots on the Ground' Audio Archive
Weekly Reconstruction Report (PDF)
Iraq Reconstruction • Maps

AFGHANISTAN
Afghanistan Update Maps

WAR ON TERRORISM

Fact Sheet: Budget Request
Fact Sheet: Terror Plots Disrupted
Waging and Winning the War on Terror
Terrorism Timeline
Terrorism Knowledge Base


COALITION FORCES FIND EXPLOSIVES — Coalition Forces talk with local residents in Salman Pak about a large explosives cache in a nearby building, Feb. 15, 2007. The area was cordoned off and local citizens were moved to a safe distance while the building and IED materials were destroyed by a controlled detonation.

National Strategy for Victory in Iraq

The following document articulates the broad strategy the President set forth in 2003 and provides an update on our progress as well as the challenges remaining.

"The United States has no intention of determining the precise form of Iraq's new government. That choice belongs to the Iraqi people. Yet, we will ensure that one brutal dictator is not replaced by another. All Iraqis must have a voice in the new government, and all citizens must have their rights protected.

Rebuilding Iraq will require a sustained commitment from many nations, including our own: we will remain in Iraq as long as necessary, and not a day more."

-- President George W. Bush
February 26, 2003


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Table of Contents

November 30, 2005
National Strategy for Victory in Iraq
Full PDF Document (386KB)
Executive Summary

PART I
Strategic Overview

Victory in Iraq Defined
Victory in Iraq is a Vital U.S. Interest
The Benefits of Victory in Iraq
The Consequences of Failure
Our Enemies and Their Goals
The Strategy of Our Enemies
Our Strategy for Victory is Clear
A. The Political Track (Isolate, Engage, Build)
B. The Security Track (Clear, Hold, Build)
C. The Economic Track (Restore, Reform, Build)
This Strategy is Integrated, and its Elements are Mutually Reinforcing
Victory Will Take Time
Why Our Strategy Is (and Must Be) Conditions-Based
Our Strategy Tracks and Measures Progress

The Americans sent to rebuild Baghdad led a cocooned existence - complete with booze, hot dogs and luxury villas.

The Americans sent to rebuild Baghdad led a cocooned existence - complete with booze, hot dogs and luxury villas.

walter quoted :

Quote:

The Americans sent to rebuild Baghdad led a cocooned existence - complete with booze, hot dogs and luxury villas.

we have been told that hotdogs are not good for us - and they are being fed to those poor guys in iraq !
what's going on ? are the americans trying to kill their own people ?
why doesn't president bush make sure these people are fed a healthy diet ?
(so what if they live in luxary villas and drink booze - that's no compensation for having to eat hotdogs ! before we know it , they'll be forced to eat BIG MACS - that'll kill them for sure !)

sorry , just couldn't help myself - i had some cough-syrup this morning - must be making me giddy :wink: .
hbg