THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

@cicerone imposter,

Not even half of all the professionals that were in Iraq prior to its USA invasion have chosen to flee Iraq and not subsequently chosen to return.

Prior to the USA invasion of Iraq, Saddam murdered thousands of professionals in Iraq. That's certainly a bigger problem than professionals choosing to flee and not return to Iraq after the USA invasion of Iraq. Once one has been murdered, one is no longer free to choose to return to life.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

i am sure most of us have read on the ground reports from iraqi hospitals .
i thought a refresher might be in order .
hbg

Quote:

March 22 , 2007
Iraqi medical crisis as doctors flee By John Leyne
BBC News, Amman

For the people of Iraq, it may be the ultimate nightmare.

The ordeal continues for victims of Iraq's violence when they are taken to hospital.
Most of the best medical staff have left after being targeted by insurgents. Many have fled the country just in the last few months.

Drugs and equipment are almost non-existent. The notorious militias target patients inside hospitals, and doctors inside the health ministry.

All this in a country that used to pride itself on the best medical services in the Middle East.

Many of the doctors have gone to neighbouring Jordan. There seem to be many thousands here, all with graphic tales of the horrors they have witnessed.
I walked into one Amman hospital, and immediately found four top Iraqi doctors, all British-trained and with world class skills.

They did not want to be named, because they have families in Iraq, but their stories are riveting.

for article in full see :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6479997.stm

1 Reply

@hamburger,

i wouldn`t want to be accused of not seeing even a dim candle of hope flickering .
looking at the overall medical situation still gives a rather grim picture .

April 30, 2008
For 100 Iraqi Doctors, a Return to Normal
By ERICA GOODE
BAGHDAD " By Western standards, it was a modest medical conference.

Companies displayed their drugs and devices " echocardiogram machines, intensive-care monitors, sterilizers " at only a handful of tables in a small exhibit hall. The freebies were pens and pieces of candy. At the break, the doctors were served coffee and sweet rolls, not a lavish buffet.

But in Iraq, with two-thirds of the medical specialists having fled the country, and with the health care system shredded by war and sapped bare by corruption, the assembly of Iraqi heart specialists at Ibn al-Bitar Hospital for Cardiac Surgery in Baghdad on Tuesday was a triumph.

The meeting marked the first time the conference, sponsored by the hospital and the Iraqi Cardiothoracic Society, was being held since 2003. Until this year, Ibn al-Bitar, the only public hospital in Iraq specializing in heart surgery, was in no position to host the two-day meeting. Hit by bombs during the American invasion, then looted, it was painstakingly rebuilt and refurbished, only to be damaged again in a mortar attack in 2004. More recently, threats and attacks against doctors made any gathering impossible.

“Most of the people working here know how it was before,” Dr. H. A. al-Hilli, the hospital’s director general, said, adding: “This day is the real day of establishing this hospital.”

for complete article see :
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/world/middleeast/30heart.html

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@hamburger,

Yes. Once again a moment's thought, and a little research, shows Ican't to be a silly fool.

And not even an entertaining fool.

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Sixteen American soldiers who served in Iraq are suing the defence contractor KBR, accusing it of knowingly exposing them to a cancer-causing chemical.

1 Reply

@revel,

It's good that they are taking action against KBR, Cheney's precious company, but nothing will come of it while Bush is in the white house.

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@hamburger,

Quote:

for complete article see :
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/world/middleeast/30heart.html

Quote:

For 100 Iraqi Doctors, a Return to Normal
By ERICA GOODE
Published: April 30, 2008
...
the assembly of Iraqi heart specialists at Ibn al-Bitar Hospital for Cardiac Surgery in Baghdad on Tuesday was a triumph.

The meeting marked the first time the conference, sponsored by the hospital and the Iraqi Cardiothoracic Society, was being held since 2003.
...

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican :

i'm sure you read the WHOLE article - including :

Quote:

... two-thirds of the medical specialists having fled the country, and with the health care system shredded by war and sapped bare by corruption ...

not a pretty picture imo - particularly considering the assistance rendered by the U.S.

1 Reply

@hamburger,

Not only that, but I'm sure many other countries are crying for US help to "shock and awe" their country into submission of the American Way.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

1 Reply

@revel,

Those crying for "success" in Iraq will be shouting in their own shadows. The coalition will essentially disappear in June 2009. Nobody has yet delineated what they mean by "success."

Quote:

Britain to withdraw most troops from Iraq by June
By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer Robert H. Reid, Associated Press Writer 2 hrs 11 mins ago

BAGHDAD " Britain announced Wednesday it will withdraw all but a handful of its 4,000 soldiers from Iraq next year, ending a mission that was unpopular at home and failed to curb the rise of Iranian-backed Shiite militias in the south.

The decision comes as the United States is weighing a drawdown in its nearly 150,000-strong force. President-elect Barack Obama has called for withdrawing all combat troops from Iraq by the spring of 2010, shifting responsibility to the Iraqis for the defense of the country against Sunni and Shiite extremists.

The British announcement, which was expected, signals a conclusion to the role of the second biggest troop contributor to the multinational coalition after the United States. More than 45,000 British troops took part in the March 2003 invasion that overthrew Saddam Hussein.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Those crying for "success" in Iraq will be shouting in their own shadows. The coalition will essentially disappear in June 2009. Nobody has yet delineated what they mean by "success."

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

Quote:

Monthly table
...
2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 |
12,039 | 10,715 | 14,759 | 27,598 | 24,295 | 8,423* |

*Does not include count in December 2008.

I previously defined success to be when the Iraq yearly violent death, total body count is maintained less than 12,000. Now I define success to be when the Iraq yearly violent death, total body count is maintained less than 6,000. I expect that will be achieved well before December 31, 2011 by when at the request of the Iraq government the USA military will have pulled out of Iraq.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

More progress in Iraq:

Quote:

Iraq Bomb Kills 48 in Volatile North

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
Published: December 11, 2008

BAGHDAD " At least 48 people were killed and 96 wounded when a suicide bomber blew himself up inside a restaurant near Kirkuk in northern Iraq on Thursday during a lunchtime meeting of local Kurdish officials with Awakening leaders who were discussing ways to cooperate to end the violence that has plagued the volatile oil-rich city.

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@ican711nm,

Quote:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Monthly table
...
2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 |
12,039 | 10,715 | 14,759 | 27,598 | 24,295 | 8,423* |

*Does not include December 2008 count.

Assuming 577 in December 2008, the total for 2008 would be 9,000 which would be less than any of the years 2003 through 2007. It would also be less than any of the years 1979 through 2002.

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A letter in the paper today:

Is it any wonder that George Bush had shoes thrown at him as a symbol of utter contempt (Shoe assault, 16 December)? The US has trampled on its own ideals with its illegal wars in Afghanistan and Iraq; it has torn to shreds its notions of democracy and justice for all with its illegal prisons in Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo, and by rendition. As if that wasn't enough, the breathtaking greed and fraud of its Wall Street traders has brought the entire world to its knees. Every economy has suffered the negative effects of the "greatest country in the world".

Even now, as he slithers out the door, Bush is unable to leave with dignity, introducing the "midnight regulations" to derail the new Democrat administration. How can a country without a moral compass dictate to others how to run their lives? It's not shoes that should be thrown at him and the entire US government.

from Letters to the editor.

1 Reply

@McTag,

How can Bush leave with "dignity" when he destroyed it himself? I'm pretty sure he's the most hated man on this planet today.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Too many Democrats in Congress have screwed up our economy and subsequently the world's economy by their repeated failures to heed the warnings of both Republican's and some Democrats to rectify the economy roting stupidity of Fanny & Freddy making a huge amount of loans to people incapable of making regular required payments to pay off those loans.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

So.... right now, about 50 million Americans think Bush is the good guy. Maybe another 100 million Brits, Germans, Poles, Australians, Italians, Kurds, Iranians, Saudi princes and Japanese, hey, maybe even 500 million more have enough financial or political interests to also support Bush. I don't think most of those 500 see him as a good guy. They see him as a venal scoundrel who will sell out his country in ways that support their interests.

That leaves about 5.8 billion people on this planet. The world Muslim population is close to 1.5 billion. Assume 97% of them hate Bush. The sane citizens of the rest of the planet have to see Bush and his supporters as venal, dangerous predators and leeches, fanatic religious zealot fools or duped fools.

Even NY Times centrist pundit Thomas Friedman says, "I have never known a time in my life when America and its president were more hated around the world than today. I was just in Japan, and even young Japanese dislike us. It's no wonder that so many Americans are obsessed with the finale of the sitcom "Friends" right now. They're the only friends we have, and even they're leaving."

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Your post,Cicerone, is a bigot's slander.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican, I doubt very much you even understand simple words like "bigot." Your application misses the definition of the word.

2 Replies

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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