THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

blatham wrote:

When the population of a sovereign nation have notions and wishes such as we see below, how ought we to value those wishes and notions?

Ought we to ignore them, desiring what is good for them while presuming we know better than they what is good for them?

Ought we to ignore them, but do so because we are acting in our own interests in occupying that sovereign nation (meanwhile, for the obvious PR reasons, pretending otherwise)?

Ought we, on the principle of respect for freedom and sovereignty, to act in accordance with their wishes/notions?

Blatham, this survey you posted here failed to report the Iraq people's "notions and wishes" in response to the question: "What do you believe would happen in Iraq if the United States quickly withdrew its forces?"

I think the people of UAE, KSA, Morocco, Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt are unreliable sources for determining the "notions and wishes" of the Iraq people.

You asked the following four questions:

1. When the population of a sovereign nation have notions and wishes such as we see below, how ought we to value those wishes and notions?

But the actual "notions and wishes" of the Iraq people were not reported here.

2. Ought we to ignore them, desiring what is good for them while presuming we know better than they what is good for them?

We shouldn't rely on people other than the Iraq people to decide what are the "notions and wishes" of the Iraq people.

3. Ought we to ignore them, but do so because we are acting in our own interests in occupying that sovereign nation (meanwhile, for the obvious PR reasons, pretending otherwise)?

We are not ignoring the "notions and wishes" of the Iraq people like you and these pollsters here are.

4. Ought we, on the principle of respect for freedom and sovereignty, to act in accordance with their wishes/notions?

You and these pollsters here lack sufficient evidence to determine that we are not acting in accordance with the "notions and wishes" of the Iraq people.


In the event that a valid survey of the "notions and wishes" of the Iraq people is obtained, and that survey reveals that a clear majority of the Iraq people believe "they will find a way to bridge their differences" if "the United States quickly withdrew its forces," then the United States should quickly withdraw its forces.

Most Iraqis Want U.S. Troops Out Within a Year
September 27, 2006
Say U.S. Presence Provoking More Conflict Than it is Preventing

Approval of Attacks on U.S.-led Forces Rises to 6 in 10

Published September 27, 2006

Full Report
Questionnaire/Methodology
Transcript of Brookings Saban Center Briefing

A new WPO poll of the Iraqi public finds that seven in ten Iraqis want U.S.-led forces to commit to withdraw within a year.

ican, I'm also sure you know of Poppy Bushie's partnerships with Saddam and bin Laden also. Look at all the loot Bushie's axis has made off those partnerships. The Bushies know how to get rich. Arm madmen. They haven't changed that recipe for generations.

C I
I know you thro abuzz.
my humble request is this.

You organize the people with this appeal.

"A2K Gatherings: Albu-May; Austin-SepOct
Mark your calendar for 3d San Francisco Gathering for summer of 2009"

Why not in Kabul or the safe hotel in Bagdad?

Baghdad: US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made an unannounced visit to Iraq on Sunday, a day after Shiite cleric Moqtada Al Sadr threatened to launch an "open war" against the US-backed government.

Six people were killed in overnight clashes between Sadr's gunmen and US and Iraqi forces in the cleric's East Baghdad enclave, the sprawling Sadr City slum, police said.

Ican
sorry.
There are other side of the truth
here is one

"Here's how we mock it in Iraq:

"At least since mid-2006, the US has been expanding its air capabilities in Iraq. Air bases have been enlarged and more planes and helicopters added to the arsenal. The build-up has led to a dramatic increase in air strikes within Iraq. . . . These missions have led to a five-fold increase in the amount of ordinance dropped in 2007. The tonnage of munitions dropped by aircraft increased to 222,000 pounds in the first half of 2007, compared to 61,500 during all of 2006."

This passage is from a report called "U.S. War Crimes in the 'Surge' 2007: Petraeus Manual and Tactics Flout International Law," written by Karen Parker, president of the Association of Humanitarian Lawyers, and policy analyst Bill Rau, for the organization ConsumersforPeace.org.

The authors maintain that, since the surge, Iraqi civilians have been dying at a faster rate, thanks to such tactics as the increased use of air power, a notoriously blunt and imprecise instrument for "promoting democracy" or anything else. For instance:

"In a raid in May 2007 on Sadr City, in eastern Baghdad," the report notes, "American forces called in an air strike on nine cars that were seen positioning themselves to ambush the American and Iraqi troops on the raid . . . and five people suspected of being 'terrorists' . . . were killed in the attack. But an Interior Ministry official and residents of Sadr City said the cars were parked in a line of vehicles waiting at a gas station."

The report also informs us: "Living conditions for most Iraqi citizens have worsened since the invasion and the cumulative impacts are widely evident and severe. While the absence of everyday security is often noted in the media, for millions of people the basic needs of life are not being met. Poverty rates are above 40 percent, childhood malnutrition exceeds 25 percent, and poor water supplies and sanitation have led to numerous outbreaks of diseases."

What are we doing there? What have we become? As the Lerner-Tikkun statement declares: "Our own well-being depends on the well-being of everyone else on the planet." We might as well be calling the air strikes on ourselves.
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print/13959