THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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revel wrote:

No we wouldn't. If we want to fight Iran (heaven forbid) then we take it to Iran; not interfere with Iraq's right govern itself which would include who it wants to have ties with.

Of course we would have a right to resist ties between Iraq and Iran, if Iran were to provide sanctuary to terrorists who have declared war on the USA.

In general, we would have a right to resist ties between any country and Iran, if Iran were to provide sanctuary to terrorists who have declared war on the USA.

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From The Times (UK)
March 4, 2008
Iraq: for once there's hope
A lot of Iraq is not functioning well, but all around you today are encouraging signs
Martin Fletcher

It is the last day of my month in Baghdad and one of the Times drivers is bringing his children to meet me in my hotel. Nowhere else in the world would that be noteworthy, but in Iraq it is remarkable.

I had not seen his family since November 2003, a few months after the US invasion, when I visited their house in western Baghdad. Shortly after that, Iraq began its slide into mayhem. Westerners faced kidnapping and execution. Our driver and his family were forced from their home by sectarian death threats. They returned when the US troop "surge" finally restored a modicum of order last summer, but even then the children were locked inside the house.

As I await their arrival, I reflect that in five years of visiting Iraq this is the first time I have left feeling anything but deeply pessimistic. Even ardent opponents of the US invasion - myself included - could not deny that daily life for most Iraqis is now better, or at least markedly less awful, than it was.

There is less gunfire, and fewer explosions. No longer do I instinctively look for mutilated torsos floating down the Tigris. I have ventured out to shop and eat - albeit in one of Baghdad's safest districts. The night-time curfew has been relaxed. Schools, markets and the national theatre have reopened. Families visit refurbished parks. Men sit outside cafés drinking sweet, black tea. Children play soccer on side roads.

I found myself writing less about death than rising oil exports, the opening of Baghdad's first Chinese restaurant, and the resumption of a rudimentary passenger train service to Basra. It has been a welcome change.

American soldiers are increasingly focused on encouraging reconstruction, not preventing destruction, and for the first time I sensed that they felt good about their mission. The Iraqi security services - particularly the army - are gradually expanding and improving. Moqtada al-Sadr, the volatile Shia cleric, has just extended the six-month ceasefire of his infamous Mahdi Army militia that was responsible for so much sectarian killing. The threat of civil war has receded, and talk of Iraq breaking up has, for now, died away. The centre has held - just.

But all this must be set in context. What passes for normality in Iraq would be utterly abnormal anywhere else. The number of Iraqis killed in January was the lowest in 23 months, but still numbered 541. Hundreds of thousands of Baghdadis now live in walled-in, ethnically cleansed, heavily guarded enclaves that they are terrified to leave. Sunnis do not venture into Shia areas, and vice-versa. Sectarian hatreds have been contained, but not resolved.

The capital is choked by checkpoints and more than 100,000 sections of concrete blast barrier. Coils of razor wire roll across pavements like tumbleweed in Texas.

Some 50,000 exiles have returned from abroad since last autumn, but several thousand were so horrified by what they found that they left again. There are still four million displaced Iraqis.

Al-Qaeda, though on the defensive, is far from defeated. It still mounts spectacular attacks, notably last month's bombings of Baghdad's pet markets. Its killings of Sunni "traitors" - the concerned local citizens (CLCs) who switched allegiance to the Americans last year - have doubled since October. Headless bodies are found quite regularly in those provinces north of Baghdad where al-Qaeda is still a force.

The economy is forecast to grow 7 per cent this year, but mostly because of rising oil exports. Despite US efforts to nurture new Iraqi businesses, at least half the workforce lack proper jobs. Most of the rest work in the bloated public sector.

Iraq, blessed with the fertile, sun-soaked lands between the Tigris and Euphrates, used to be a net exporter of food. But agriculture has collapsed and the markets are now full of imported produce. The only foreign investment has been in the mobile telephone networks and three cement factories (building those blast walls is big business). Corruption is endemic.

To talk of America "winning" a conflict that has lasted longer than the First World War is now grotesque, whatever the outcome. There has been far too much suffering for that. This long ago became a salvage operation - and one whose success is still not assured.

Nouri al-Maliki's little-loved Shia-led Government has failed to secure the peace by creating more jobs or improving the country's abysmal public services, particularly water and electricity. It has not done nearly enough to promote reconciliation between Shias, Kurds and Sunnis. It has shown great reluctance to incorporate into its security services the 80,000 predominantly Sunni CLCs who have helped the US military to take on al-Qaeda.

Sunnis see the Government as a puppet of Iran, bent on domination, not reconciliation. Shias regard the CLCs as a fledgling Sunni militia, full of former al-Qaeda henchmen, whose alliance with the Americans is temporary and expedient. The Kurds are increasingly asserting their independence, signing bilateral contracts with Western oil companies, and a flashpoint looms in June with a referendum on the future status of the hotly contested, oil-rich city of Kirkuk, which the Kurds are determined to reclaim.

This is a dangerous state of affairs as the US troop surge starts winding down, but it is still hard to believe that anybody would want to return to the horrors of 2006 and 2007, or that a people who let the extremists lead them to the very brink of civil war would allow that to happen again.

I hope that is not naive, but it may be. Iraq's new-found "peace" is desperately fragile. My driver's family never made it to my hotel. Two car bombs exploded just down the road as they were nearing. They turned around and sped back home again.

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ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:
No we wouldn't. If we want to fight Iran (heaven forbid) then we take it to Iran; not interfere with Iraq's right govern itself which would include who it wants to have ties with.

Of course we would have a right to resist ties between Iraq and Iran, if Iran were to provide sanctuary to terrorists who have declared war on the USA.

In general, we would have a right to resist ties between any country and Iran, if Iran were to provide sanctuary to terrorists who have declared war on the USA.

Ican apparently the word sovereignty escapes you.

Quote:

Sovereignty is the exclusive right to have complete control over an area of governance, people, or oneself. A sovereign is the supreme lawmaking authority, subject to no other.

source

We turned over sovereignty to Iraq in 2004 if they want a visit from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad there is not a blamed thing we can do about which is why we didn't and he was allowed to come.

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Bombs reported to kill 4 in Mosul

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Bombings in the northern city of Mosul, an al-Qaida in Iraq stronghold, killed at least four people and wounded 46 on Friday, officials said, while relatives mourned the victims of an attack that killed 68 in a Baghdad shopping district.

The carnage was a grim reminder of the continuing danger in Iraq, which nonetheless has seen major security gains in the last half-year.

An extremist detonated an explosives-laden car outside a police station's front gate in Mosul, killing at least three and wounding 32, authorities said.

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revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:
No we wouldn't. If we want to fight Iran (heaven forbid) then we take it to Iran; not interfere with Iraq's right govern itself which would include who it wants to have ties with.

Of course we would have a right to resist ties between Iraq and Iran, if Iran were to provide sanctuary to terrorists who have declared war on the USA.

In general, we would have a right to resist ties between any country and Iran, if Iran were to provide sanctuary to terrorists who have declared war on the USA.

Ican apparently the word sovereignty escapes you.

Quote:
Sovereignty is the exclusive right to have complete control over an area of governance, people, or oneself. A sovereign is the supreme lawmaking authority, subject to no other.

source

We turned over sovereignty to Iraq in 2004 if they want a visit from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad there is not a blamed thing we can do about which is why we didn't and he was allowed to come.

Sovereignty is not absolute!. It was not absolute in the case of Germany, and Japan in the 1940s, or in the case of Iraq in 1991 when they waged war. Sovereignty was not absolute in the case of Afghanistan in 2001 or in the case of Iraq in 2003 when they gave sanctuary to a group that declared and waged war against the USA. Likewise we would have a right to resist ties between Iraq and Iran, if Iran were to provide sanctuary to a group who has declared and waged war on the USA.

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revel wrote:

Bombs reported to kill 4 in Mosul

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...
The carnage was a grim reminder of the continuing danger in Iraq, which nonetheless has seen major security gains in the last half-year.

That "continuing danger" is not a legitimate excuse for abandoning Iraq and the Iraqi people before they are able to control that "continuing danger" without our help.

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Ican, we waged war with Afghanistan when the Taliban refused to turn over Osama Bin Laden. There was no way we could force them to turn over Osama Bin Laden unless we either imposed sanctions (and circumstances were too dire for that option in my opinion) or go to war with them or had diplomatic talks to try to persuade. Are you saying you want to go to war or impose sanctions with Iraq's government for having ties to Iran if they keep having ties despite our wishes?

My point with the increased violence is that it is still happening despite the surge of US troops and security measures still on going so what good will it do in the long run if things don't improve or stay the same or get worse? It is liable to stay this way for twenty or so years.

If we left; I imagine things will get worse for Iraqis; yet we simply can't stay there in such as force as we are now. If we left we in US will be in no more danger from AQ than we are now since there are AQ in all parts of the world and less AQ than most parts of the world. They can attack us now while we are in Iraq just the same if we left.

As far as their internal struggles; that is something they really have to work out for themselves in the manner they see fit. True change and success can only come from within Iraq. IMO

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I'm surprised some people refuse to acknowledge why there's a hiatus in Iraq's violence. They're just waiting until more US troops come home. It's not a matter of our troops stopping the violence; the tribes of Iraq have been at war for over a thousand years.

Get the picture yet? McCain's statement about staying in Iraq for a hundred years has some truism to it, but many refuse to ackownedge the reality. It doesn't matter whether we stay in Iraq or not; the violence will continue for another thousand years.

The reason is simple: you kill my family, I'm gonna kill yours.

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Studies: Iraq costs US $12B per month

By CHARLES J. HANLEY, AP Special Correspondent
2 hours, 37 minutes ago

The flow of blood may be ebbing, but the flood of money into the Iraq war is steadily rising, new analyses show. In 2008, its sixth year, the war will cost approximately $12 billion a month, triple the "burn" rate of its earliest years, Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and co-author Linda J. Bilmes report in a new book.

Beyond 2008, working with "best-case" and "realistic-moderate" scenarios, they project the Iraq and Afghan wars,

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From Doug Feith's new autobiography:

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In the first insider account of Pentagon decision-making on Iraq, one of the key architects of the war blasts former secretary of state Colin Powell, the CIA, retired Gen. Tommy R. Franks and former Iraq occupation chief L. Paul Bremer for mishandling the run-up to the invasion and the subsequent occupation of the country.

Douglas J. Feith, in a massive score-settling work, portrays an intelligence community and a State Department that repeatedly undermined plans he developed as undersecretary of defense for policy and conspired to undercut President Bush's policies.

Among the disclosures made by Feith in "War and Decision," scheduled for release next month by HarperCollins, is Bush's declaration, at a Dec. 18, 2002, National Security Council meeting, that "war is inevitable." The statement came weeks before U.N. weapons inspectors reported their initial findings on Iraq and months before Bush delivered an ultimatum to Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. Feith, who says he took notes at the meeting, registered it as a "momentous comment."

Just so you are all aware, and so we're on the same page,

Bush was lying each and every time he stated that he didn't desire a war in Iraq. Through the first quarter of 2003, he lied numerous times on this various issue. Lied in the SOTU address. He always intended to go to war there.

Cycloptichorn

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Ofcoarse he lied; there were enough information then to conclude he lied. Only the neocons continued to say he never lied. With all the evidence available, the neocons were lying to themselves because they didn't want to admit they were wrong. Stubbornness will eventually bite them in the arse.

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I remember Bush telling us that war was the last option.

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http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
A Month by Month, Daily Average of IBC's Count of Violent Deaths in Iraq, After April 30, 2007:

May = 3,755 / 31 = .... 121 per day
.. Surge fully operational in June .
June = 2,386 / 30 = ....... 80 per day.
July = 2,077 / 31 = .......... 67 per day.
August = 2,084 / 31 = ........ 67 per day.
September = 1,333 / 30 = ... 44 per day.
October = 1,962 / 31 = ....... 63 per day.
November = 980 / 30 = ... 33 per day.
December = 1044 / 31 = ... 34 per day.
January = 527/ 31 = .... 17 per day. .
___________________________________________________________________________

From Encyclopedia Britannica Books of the Year, as of December 31, 2002, Total Iraq Violent Deaths since January 1, 1979 = 1,229,210.

From IBC http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ as of January 31, 2008, Total Iraq Violent Deaths since January 1, 2003 = 89,254.
___________________________________________________________________________

Daily Average, Iraq Violent Deaths, PRE and POST January 1, 2003:

PRE = 1/1/1979 - 12/31/2002 = 1,229,210/8,766 days = 140 per day;

POST = 1/1/2003 - 01/31/2008 = 89,254/1,857days = 48 per day;

PRE / POST = 140/48 = 2.9.
___________________________________________________________________________

If the IBC numbers were half the actual true numbers then:

PRE = 1/1/1979 - 12/31/2002 = 1,229,210/8,766 days = 140 per day;

POST = 1/1/2003 - 01/31/2008 = 177,508/1,857days = 96 per day;

PRE / POST = 140/96 = 1.5
.___________________________________________________________________________

We must win and succeed in Iraq, because we Americans will suffer significant losses of our freedoms, if we do not win and succeed in Iraq.

The USA wins and succeeds in Iraq when the daily rate of violent deaths in Iraq decreases below 30, remains less than 30, while we are removing our troops, and remains less than 30 for at least a year after we have completed our departure.

==========================================================

IRAQ:
Period = Month-Year;
US = United States;
UK = United Kingdom;
Other* = Other Coalition Countries;
Total = Total for the Period;
Average = Daily Average (for the month);
Days = Days per Period.

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http://www.icasualties.org
Military Fatalities: By Month

Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
3-2008
7 7 0.7 10
2-2008
29 1 30 1.03 29
1-2008
40 40 1.29 31
12-2007
23 1 24 0.77 31

5-2003
37 4 1 42 1.35 31
4-2003
74 6 80 2.67 30
3-2003
65 27 92 7.67 12
Total 3980 175 133 4288 2.36 1818

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CONGRESS'S TRUE WHEREASES

Of the 23 "Whereases" (i.e., Reasons) given by the USA Congress for its October 16, 2002 resolution, 11 were subsequently proven FALSE. The remaining 12 were subsequently proven TRUE. These TRUE Whereases are more than sufficient to justify the USA invasion of Iraq, and are listed in the following quote:

Congress wrote:

www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq

Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq[/u];

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens[/u];

Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1),' that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and `constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region,' and that Congress, `supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688';

Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;

Whereas on September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the United States to `work with the United Nations Security Council to meet our common challenge' posed by Iraq and to `work for the necessary resolutions,' while also making clear that `the Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be unavoidable';

Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and,

Whereas it is in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region:

Now therefore be it, Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. 50 USC 1541 note.

Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, 09/08/2006, wrote:

Congressional Intelligence Report 09/08/2006
Postwar information indicates that the Intelligence Community accurately assessed that al-Qa'ida affiliate group Ansar al-Islam operated in Kurdish-controlled northeastern Iraq

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ican711nm wrote:

We must win and succeed in Iraq, because we Americans will suffer significant losses of our freedoms, if we do not win and succeed in Iraq.

Like what? Will the Taliban take over America and force you to grow a beard?

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...and wear a turban.

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listening to CNN this afternoon , i picked up this "gem" :

Quote:

On Friday, conservative Republican Rep. Steve King of Iowa made some controversial comments about Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama in a radio interview.

King said Obama's middle name, Hussein, "does matter" because "they read a meaning into that, the rest of the world - it has a special meaning to them."

"They'll be dancing in the streets because of his middle name," King added. "They'll be dancing in the streets because of who his father was and because of his posture that says, 'Pull out of the Middle East. Pull out of this conflict.' "

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old europe wrote:

ican711nm wrote:
We must win and succeed in Iraq, because we Americans will suffer significant losses of our freedoms, if we do not win and succeed in Iraq.

Like what? Will the Taliban take over America and force you to grow a beard?

I reckon those I love could live and even prosper with beards--grown or bought--wearing turbans.

But living with a huge escalation of this kind of stuff might prove to be a bit of a problem:

1996
June 25: Khobar Towers bombing, killing 19 and wounding 372 Americans.

1998
August 7: U.S. embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000.

2000
October 12: USS Cole bombing kills 17 US sailors.

2001
September 11: The attacks on September 11 kill almost 3,000 in a series of hijacked airliner crashes into two U.S. landmarks: the World Trade Center in New York City, New York, and The Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. A fourth plane crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania.

October 12: Bali car bombing of holidaymakers kills 202 people, mostly Western tourists and local Balinese hospitality staff.

October 17: Zamboanga bombings in the Philippines kill six and wounds about 150.

October 18: A bus bomb in Manila kills three people and wounds 22.

October 19: A car bomb explodes outside a McDonald's Corp. restaurant in Moscow, killing one person and wounding five.[/quote]

October 23: Moscow theater hostage crisis begins; 120 hostages and 40 terrorists killed in rescue three days later.[/quote]

2003
March 4: Bomb attack in an airport in Davao kills 21.

2003
May 12: Bombings of United States expatriate housing compounds in Saudi Arabia kill 26 and injure 160 in the Riyadh Compound Bombings. Al-Qaeda blamed.

May 12: A truck bomb attack on a government building in the Chechen town of Znamenskoye kills 59.

May 14: As many as 16 die in a suicide bombing at a religious festival in southeastern Chechnya.

May 16: Casablanca Attacks by 12 bombers on five "Western and Jewish" targets in Casablanca, Morocco leaves 41 dead and over 100 injured. Attack attributed to a Moroccan al-Qaeda-linked group.

July 5: 15 people die and 40 are injured in bomb attacks at a rock festival in Moscow.

August 1: An explosion at the Russian hospital in Mozdok in North Ossetia kills at least 50 people and injures 76.

August 25: At least 48 people were killed and 150 injured in two blasts in south Mumbai - one near the Gateway of India at the other at the Zaveri Bazaar.

September 3: A bomb blast on a passenger train near Kislovodsk in southern Russia kills seven people and injures 90.

November 15 and November 20: Truck bombs go off at two synagogues, the British Consulate, and the HSBC Bank in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 57 and wounding 700.

December 5: Suicide bombers kill at least 46 people in an attack on a train in southern Russia

December 9: A blast in the center of Moscow kills six people and wounds at least 11.

2004
February 6: Bomb on Moscow Metro kills 41.

February 27: Superferry 14 is bombed in the Philippines by Abu Sayyaf, killing 116.

March 2: Attack on procession of Shia Muslims in Pakistan kills 43 and wounds 160.

March 11: Coordinated bombing of commuter trains in Madrid, Spain, kills 191 people and injures more than 1,500.

April 21: Basra bombs in Iraq kill 74 and injure hundreds.

April 21: Bombing of a security building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills 5.

May 29: Al-Khobar massacres, in which Islamic militants kill 22 people at an oil compound in Saudi Arabia.

August 24: Bombing of Russian airplane kills 90.

August 31: A blast near a subway station entrance in northern Moscow, caused by a suicide bomber, kills 10 people and injures 33.

September 1 - 3: Beslan school hostage crisis in North Ossetia, Russia, results in 344 dead.

September 9: Jakarta embassy bombing, in which the Australian embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia was bombed, kills eight people.

October 7: Sinai bombings: Three car bombs explode in the Sinai Peninsula, killing at least 34 and wounding 171, many of them Israeli and other foreign tourists.

December 6: Suspected al Qaeda-linked group attacks U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, killing 5 local employees.

December 12: A bombing at the Christmas market in General Santos, Philippines, kills 15.

2005
February 14: A car bomb kills former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri and 20 others in Beirut.

March 9: An attack of an Istanbul restaurant killed one, and injured five.

March 19: Car bomb attack on theatre in Doha, Qatar, kills one Briton and wounds 12 others.

April 7: A suicide bomber blows himself up in Cairo's Khan al Khalili market, killing three foreign tourists and wounding 17 others.

May 7: Multiple bomb explosions across Myanmar's capital Rangoon kill 19 and injure 160.

June 12: Bombs explode in the Iranian cities of Ahvaz and Tehran, leaving 10 dead and 80 wounded days before the Iranian presidential election.

July 7: London bombings - Attacks on one double-decker bus and three London Underground trains, killing 56 people and injuring over 700, occur on the first day of the 31st G8 Conference. The attacks are believed by many to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe.

July 23: Sharm el-Sheikh bombings: Car bombs explode at tourist sites in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, killing at least 88 and wounding more than 100.
August 17: Around 100 home-made bombs exploded in 58 different locations in Bangladesh, Killing two and wounding 100.

October 1: A series of explosions occurs in resort areas of Jimabaran Beach and Kuta in Bali, Indonesia.

October 13: A large group of Chechen rebels launched coordinated attacks on Russian federal buildings, local police stations, and the airport in Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria. At least 137 people, including 92 rebels, were killed.

October 15: Two bombs exploded at a shopping mall in Ahvaz, Khuzestan in Iran. Six people died and over 100 were injured.

October 29: Multiple bomb blasts hit markets in New Delhi, India, leaving at least 61 dead and more than 200 injured.

November 9: Three explosions at hotels in Amman, Jordan, leave at least 57 dead and 120 wounded.

2006
March 2: Bombing in Karachi, Pakistan kills four, including a U.S. diplomat.

March 7: Bombings in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi, India, leave at least 15 people dead.

et cetera[/quote]

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ican711nm wrote:

old europe wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
We must win and succeed in Iraq, because we Americans will suffer significant losses of our freedoms, if we do not win and succeed in Iraq.

Like what? Will the Taliban take over America and force you to grow a beard?

[list of terrorist attacks]

ican, what would you say are the most important freedoms for an American citizen? I mean, the long list you just posted seems to suggest that the only freedoms you're worried to loose is the freedom to die a natural death...

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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