THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

Why are people so blind to facts: All while the US builds the largest embassy in the world in Baghdad, and create some 14 permanent military bases in Iraq.
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http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=demagogic&x=31&y=9
Main Entry: dem·a·gog·ic Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: |dem|gäj]ik, -gäg]ik, ]k also -m|- or -mi|- or ]k sometimes -gg]
Variant(s): also dem·a·gog·i·cal \]kl, ]k-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Greek dmaggikos, from dmaggos + -ikos -ic, ical
: characteristic of or like a demagogue <a> <took> <the> : tending or aiming to gain personal or partisan advantage by arousing or appealing to popular passions or prejudices especially by making specious or extravagant claims, promises, or charges : RABBLE-ROUSING <a> <a> <demagogic>
- dem·a·gog·i·cal·ly \]k()l, -li\ adverb

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What's so difficult to understand? Leave when they ask us? Some people will ever "get it."

BAGHDAD: The number of Iraqis killed in February rose by 33 per cent over January, reversing a six-month trend of reduced violence, in a setback to the US military plan to curb the bloodshed ravaging the country.

The combined figures from the interior, defence and health ministries showed that the total number of Iraqis killed in February was 721, including 636 civilians, compared with 541 dead in January.

Why are people so blind to facts: All while the US builds the largest embassy in the world in Baghdad, and create some 14 permanent military bases in Iraq. What's so difficult to understand? Leave when they ask us? Some people will ever "get it."

Quote:

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The combined figures from the interior, defence and health ministries showed that the total number of Iraqis killed in February was 721, including 636 civilians, compared with 541 dead in January.

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Found this today.

Interesting

http://www.serendipity.li/iraqwar.htm

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

revel wrote:

Quote:

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The combined figures from the interior, defence and health ministries showed that the total number of Iraqis killed in February was 721, including 636 civilians, compared with 541 dead in January.

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Deaths per day

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
A Month by Month, Daily Average of IBC's Count of Violent Deaths in Iraq, After April 30, 2007:

May = 3,755 / 31 = ……………….... 121 per day
…………….. Surge fully operational in June …………….
June = 2,386 / 30 = …………......…. 80 per day.
July = 2,077 / 31 = ………….......... 67 per day.
August = 2,084 / 31 = ……...…..... 67 per day.
September = 1,333 / 30 = ………... 44 per day.
October = 1,962 / 31 = ……...….... 63 per day.
November = 980 / 30 = ………..…. 33 per day.
December = 1044 / 31 = ………..…. 34 per day.
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From Revel's post:

January = 541 / 31= ………..…. 18 per day.
February = 636 / 29 = ………..…. 22 per day
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Looks like an improving trend to me.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (C) greets Iraqi chiefs of tribes at the residence of Iraqi President Jalal Talabani in Baghdad on March 3, 2008. The Iranian leader, on a landmark visit to neighbouring Iraq, urged US-led foreign forces today to leave the war-ravaged nation, saying without them the region will "live in peace."
12:43 p.m. ET, 3/3/08

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

Quote:

...
The combined figures from the interior, defence and health ministries showed that the total number of Iraqis killed in February was 721, including 636 civilians, compared with 541 dead in January.

...

Deaths per day

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
A Month by Month, Daily Average of IBC's Count of Violent Deaths in Iraq, After April 30, 2007:

May = 3,755 / 31 = ……………….... 121 per day
…………….. Surge fully operational in June …………….
June = 2,386 / 30 = …………......…. 80 per day.
July = 2,077 / 31 = ………….......... 67 per day.
August = 2,084 / 31 = ……...…..... 67 per day.
September = 1,333 / 30 = ………... 44 per day.
October = 1,962 / 31 = ……...….... 63 per day.
November = 980 / 30 = ………..…. 33 per day.
December = 1044 / 31 = ………..…. 34 per day.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From Revel's post:

January = 541 / 31= ………..…. 18 per day.
February = 636 / 29 = ………..…. 22 per day
---------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like an improving trend to me.

The point; Ican; is that the surge's temporary decline in violence is not being sustained just as most logical people predicted since there was no political meaningful breakthroughs which would have helped in long term security gains for Iraqis.

Case in point

another meaningless law

MSNBC reports :

Quote:

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (C) greets Iraqi chiefs of tribes at the residence of Iraqi President Jalal Talabani in Baghdad on March 3, 2008. The Iranian leader, on a landmark visit to neighbouring Iraq, urged US-led foreign forces today to leave the war-ravaged nation, saying without them the region will "live in peace."
12:43 p.m. ET, 3/3/08

Yeah, right! Ahmadinejad can be trusted not to have Iran invade Iraq if the US were to leave before the Iraqis are able to defend themselves without US help.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prays at the revered Shiite shrine of Imams Musa al-Kadhim and Mohammed al-Jawad in the Kadhimiya neighbourhood of Baghdad early on March 3, 2008. The Iranian leader, on a landmark visit to neighbouring Iraq, urged US-led foreign forces today to leave the war-ravaged nation, saying without them the region will "live in peace."
12:09 p.m. ET, 3/3/08

revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

Quote:

...
The combined figures from the interior, defence and health ministries showed that the total number of Iraqis killed in February was 721, including 636 civilians, compared with 541 dead in January.

...

Deaths per day

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
A Month by Month, Daily Average of IBC's Count of Violent Deaths in Iraq, After April 30, 2007:

May = 3,755 / 31 = ……………….... 121 per day
…………….. Surge fully operational in June …………….
June = 2,386 / 30 = …………......…. 80 per day.
July = 2,077 / 31 = ………….......... 67 per day.
August = 2,084 / 31 = ……...…..... 67 per day.
September = 1,333 / 30 = ………... 44 per day.
October = 1,962 / 31 = ……...….... 63 per day.
November = 980 / 30 = ………..…. 33 per day.
December = 1044 / 31 = ………..…. 34 per day.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From Revel's post:

January = 541 / 31= ………..…. 18 per day.
February = 636 / 29 = ………..…. 22 per day
---------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like an improving trend to me.

The point; Ican; is that the surge's temporary decline in violence is not being sustained just as most logical people predicted since there was no political meaningful breakthroughs which would have helped in long term security gains for Iraqis.

Case in point

another meaningless law

My point is that the daily violent death rate in Iraq is generally decreasing. One cannot expect a trend, increasing or decreasing, to exclude any reversals. Besides, look again at the the daily violent death rate since May 2007. We've had only 3 reversals in that 11 month decreasing trend.

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

Quote:

...
The combined figures from the interior, defence and health ministries showed that the total number of Iraqis killed in February was 721, including 636 civilians, compared with 541 dead in January.

...

Deaths per day

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
A Month by Month, Daily Average of IBC's Count of Violent Deaths in Iraq, After April 30, 2007:

May = 3,755 / 31 = ……………….... 121 per day
…………….. Surge fully operational in June …………….
June = 2,386 / 30 = …………......…. 80 per day.
July = 2,077 / 31 = ………….......... 67 per day.
August = 2,084 / 31 = ……...…..... 67 per day.
September = 1,333 / 30 = ………... 44 per day.
October = 1,962 / 31 = ……...….... 63 per day.
November = 980 / 30 = ………..…. 33 per day.
December = 1044 / 31 = ………..…. 34 per day.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From Revel's post:

January = 541 / 31= ………..…. 18 per day.
February = 636 / 29 = ………..…. 22 per day
---------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like an improving trend to me.

The point; Ican; is that the surge's temporary decline in violence is not being sustained just as most logical people predicted since there was no political meaningful breakthroughs which would have helped in long term security gains for Iraqis.

Case in point

another meaningless law

My point is that the daily violent death rate in Iraq is generally decreasing. One cannot expect a trend, increasing or decreasing, to exclude any reversals. Besides, look again at the the daily violent death rate since May 2007. We've had only 3 reversals in that 11 month decreasing trend.

It is not accurate to compare last may with progress since the surge began.

Of course it is accurate to make that comparison! The surge was not fully operational until June 2007. Reduction in violent Iraqi deaths followed quickly and continued thereafter.

We have had this surge in troops and we stepped up security with all these walls around the different sects and increased check points. Raids done on any number of so called AQ bases or houses (or whatever). Most of the Sunni who were with the foreign (which has always only represented a relative small portion) broke away from them, Sadre (whatever his name is; don't feel like looking it up) has a had a truce sicne the surge began. Despite all this we have still had violence and now violence is starting to increase.

Maybe it has started to increase, and then again maybe it shall continue to decrease!

I have noticed it in the news reports even before the announcement. We have had little political progress and that is why I predict we will keep seeing a slight increase or staying about the same in security progress; which is still not good. I wouldn't want to live like that. This is not rocket science; you aught to be able to get it. But I don't hold out much hope.

Yes, it is a rotten situation! But it would be far worse for the Iraqis if we pulled out before they are able to protect themselves without our help. Deserting the Iraqi people now would be even more rotten!

On the other point; there is no need for Iran to invade Iraq after we leave since they already enjoy a close relationship even with us there in increased number of troops; heck; even their President is visiting and the Shiite has always been close since the invasion of Iraq. In my opinion; that is Iraq business anyway and really not up to us to decide the relationship between Iraq and Iran. We do not own Iraq, or at least we are not supposed to.

When the Iraq government asks us to leave, our moral obligation to the Iraqi people and to our own sense of decency to stay will be ended. NOT BEFORE!

Ican; Iraq is supposed to be a sovereign state and we are supposed to be there merely for security purposes. If they want ties with Iran it is their right to have ties with Iran regardless of the US position.

ARBIL, Iraq, March 5 (Reuters) - Turkish warplanes bombed villages in remote northern Iraq on Tuesday, a week after a major eight-day offensive by Turkish forces against Kurdish PKK guerrillas in the region, border officials said on Wednesday.

An Iraqi border guard official said Turkish aircraft struck a village in the Amadiya area close to the Turkish border on Tuesday evening. There were no reports of casualties.

At about the same time, Turkish aircraft struck two villages in the Zete area of Arbil province, local officials said. There was no word on any damage or casualties, they said.

The Turkish military pulled out its troops on Feb. 29 after saying the ground operation in the mountainous region of Iraq's largely autonomous Kurdistan region had achieved its objectives, including the deaths of some 240 guerrillas.

Turkey blames the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) for the deaths of nearly 40,000 people since the group began its armed struggle for an ethnic homeland in southeast Turkey in 1984.