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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 11:55 am
What does Bush really know? LOL
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 01:14 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
What does Bush really know? LOL


More then you do.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 08:36 am
Not really MM; CI said there was no WMD long before George Bush ever did.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 09:03 am
Suicide attack on bus in north Iraq leaves 14 dead

Iraq condemns Turkish incursion and demands immediate withdrawal

Turkey ignores appeals for a swift withdrawal

Kurdish fighters seethe over US support to Turks

Nevetheless:

A War We Must End

I agree with these fellows opinions (not facts); Iraq would probably just continue on in the same vein as it does now making deal when it wants and not when it don't want. Our presence makes little difference in any long standing meaningful way. Moreoever; we simply can't afford to stay there another administration's term.

Most Americans want us to end this war; will our leaders ever listen? Or will they continue to lie about what Americans want?

61% Want Troops Home from Iraq Within a Year

Bush predicts GOP will hold White House

Does Bush think the American people just don't really know their own minds?

McCain must have gotten the message because he is starting his "victory is around the corner" thing again.

McCain: "The War Will Be Over Soon"

Of course he has said much the same before:

Quote:
For years, McCain has misjudged the length of conflict in Iraq, repeatedly telling the American public that the war will be over soon. Some lowlights:

I think the victory will be rapid, within about three weeks. [MSNBC, 1/28/03]

It's clear that the end is very much in sight. … It won't be long. It, it'll be a fairly short period of time. [ABC, 4/9/03]

We're either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months. [Meet The Press, 11/12/06]


source

He must have realized the mistake of his "hundred year remarks" didn't go over well with the average american whose votes he wants.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 09:23 am
revel wrote:
Not really MM; CI said there was no WMD long before George Bush ever did.


True, but since CI is not privy to all of the briefings that Bush gets, since CI is not privy to all of the information that crosses the presidents desk, it is not possible for CI to know more about what is going on then Bush.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 12:50 pm
mysteryman wrote:
revel wrote:
Not really MM; CI said there was no WMD long before George Bush ever did.


True, but since CI is not privy to all of the briefings that Bush gets, since CI is not privy to all of the information that crosses the presidents desk, it is not possible for CI to know more about what is going on then Bush.


Who said he listens or even reads to all that goes on? According to Paul O'Neil who was part of the Bush administration and sat in on some of those meeting, Bush was like, "like a blind man in a room full of deaf people".

Quote:
He says there was a lack of real dialogue at cabinet meetings with Mr Bush so detached that he was "like a blind man in a room full of deaf people".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3384845.stm

In my opinion I think Bush just listened to Cheney and those like him and closed his eyes and ears to anything or anybody else about everything. There is no other way to explain the last eight years; in my view.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 12:57 pm
Also, it' doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude the incompetence and lying of Bush if he was privy to all the expert advisors at his beck and call. Only the Bush apologists would make excuses with blind devotion.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 01:59 pm
CONGRESSES WHEREASES

Of the 23 "Whereases" (i.e., Reasons) given by the USA Congress for its October 16, 2002 resolution, 11 were subsequently proven FALSE. The remaining 12 were subsequently proven TRUE. These true Whereases are more than sufficient to justify the USA invasion of Iraq, and are listed in the following quote:


Congress wrote:

www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq

Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq[/u];

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens[/u];


Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1),' that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and `constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region,' and that Congress, `supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688';

Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;

Whereas on September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the United States to `work with the United Nations Security Council to meet our common challenge' posed by Iraq and to `work for the necessary resolutions,' while also making clear that `the Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be unavoidable';

Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and,

Whereas it is in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region:

Now therefore be it, Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. 50 USC 1541 note.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 02:02 pm
Perhaps if you print it a little bigger, people will think you are right.

Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 03:14 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Perhaps if you print it a little bigger, people will think you are right.

Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 03:35 pm
bigger is ALWAYS better , isn't it ?
:wink:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 04:00 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Perhaps if you print it a little bigger, people will think you are right.

Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

Cycloptichorn


Childish.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 04:02 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Perhaps if you print it a little bigger, people will think you are right.

Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

Cycloptichorn


Childish.

Cycloptichorn

You're too kind!
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 08:03 am
Its the outright false rosey anylasis and always blaming every violence committed in Iraq on AQ when that can't possibly be the case that has always gotten on my nerves with those who keep trying to defend this unjustified, not needed and mess of a war.



Quote:
Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) returned this week from a trip to Iraq and was "brimming with optimism." This morning on Fox News, Graham said he wishes Washington would be more like Baghdad:

The truth is that political reconciliation in Iraq is going better there than it is here at home because of better security.

Graham's foresight on Iraq has been repeatedly off-base. For example, in August, he said the U.S. was "kicking ass" and foresaw "breakthrough" political reconciliation "within weeks, not months." In reality, little has been accomplished since then.

So, does Graham really want Washington to function more like Baghdad? Does he want to see one political faction assassinating the other's officials? Politically-linked murders of judicial investigators, doctors, and politicians? Sectarian bombings of civilians trying to freely practice their religion?




Thomas E. Ricks

A real eye opener on several fronts.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 08:15 am
revel wrote:
Its the outright false rosey anylasis and always blaming every violence committed in Iraq on AQ when that can't possibly be the case that has always gotten on my nerves with those who keep trying to defend this unjustified, not needed and mess of a war.



Quote:
Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) returned this week from a trip to Iraq and was "brimming with optimism." This morning on Fox News, Graham said he wishes Washington would be more like Baghdad:

The truth is that political reconciliation in Iraq is going better there than it is here at home because of better security.

Graham's foresight on Iraq has been repeatedly off-base. For example, in August, he said the U.S. was "kicking ass" and foresaw "breakthrough" political reconciliation "within weeks, not months." In reality, little has been accomplished since then.

So, does Graham really want Washington to function more like Baghdad? Does he want to see one political faction assassinating the other's officials? Politically-linked murders of judicial investigators, doctors, and politicians? Sectarian bombings of civilians trying to freely practice their religion?




Thomas E. Ricks

A real eye opener on several fronts.


Or by the same token...

Its the outright false doom and gloom anylasis and always blaming every violence committed in Iraq on the US when that can't possibly be the case that has always gotten on my nerves with those who keep trying to condemn this justified, neccessary, mess of a war.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 09:37 am
mysteryman wrote:
revel wrote:
Its the outright false rosey anylasis and always blaming every violence committed in Iraq on AQ when that can't possibly be the case that has always gotten on my nerves with those who keep trying to defend this unjustified, not needed and mess of a war.



Quote:
Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) returned this week from a trip to Iraq and was "brimming with optimism." This morning on Fox News, Graham said he wishes Washington would be more like Baghdad:

The truth is that political reconciliation in Iraq is going better there than it is here at home because of better security.

Graham's foresight on Iraq has been repeatedly off-base. For example, in August, he said the U.S. was "kicking ass" and foresaw "breakthrough" political reconciliation "within weeks, not months." In reality, little has been accomplished since then.

So, does Graham really want Washington to function more like Baghdad? Does he want to see one political faction assassinating the other's officials? Politically-linked murders of judicial investigators, doctors, and politicians? Sectarian bombings of civilians trying to freely practice their religion?




Thomas E. Ricks

A real eye opener on several fronts.


Or by the same token...

Its the outright false doom and gloom anylasis and always blaming every violence committed in Iraq on the US when that can't possibly be the case that has always gotten on my nerves with those who keep trying to condemn this justified, neccessary, mess of a war.


'cept, it wasn't justified OR necessary. Not at all.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 09:51 am
At the time, our govt (including congress) thought it was.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 11:02 am
Congress was wrong and was too lazy to do any back checking before consenting to the Iraq resolution to know the dissenting views and the views which said how hard it was going to be after the invasion.

In other news which directly contradicts Graham dim-witted comments in the link of my previous post:

Iraqi council rejects elections law
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 11:07 am
mysteryman wrote:
At the time, our govt (including congress) thought it was.


Most Democrats did not. You seem to forget that part.

Also, the whole 'being lied to by Bush' thing has to be factored in. Because it is most certainly the case.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 11:23 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
At the time, our govt (including congress) thought it was.


Most Democrats did not. You seem to forget that part.

I havent forgotten that.
Its not relevant, because Congress DID vote to authorize force.
That includes democrats.
They may now claim they were "lied to or tricked" but that doesnt change their vote, now or then.



Also, the whole 'being lied to by Bush' thing has to be factored in. Because it is most certainly the case.

And since they were "lied to" and they believed him, or if they were somehow "tricked" into voting for force, what does it say about them?
After all, you and others keep saying how stupid Bush is, yet he convinced the dems.

Are you willing to say that the dems in congress are even dumber then Bush?
After all, they believed him.
Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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