9
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 01:06 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
If we could just find a way to convince those al-Qaeda people to stop killing Iraqis, we could reduce our propensity to make mistakes killing Iraqis, while trying to kill those al-Qaeda people in order to protect Iraqis.


So you are willing to admit that we are not currently experiencing success convincing AQ to stop?

Cycloptichorn

Obviously, not yet!

I am convinced that nothing will really stop al-Qaeda short of their extermination.


Have we tried all options?

Cycloptichorn

No! We (Clinton) tried several (including merely watching al-Qaeda mass murder) that did not stop al-Qaeda from mass murdering. I can think of many options I am convinced will not accomplish stopping al-Qaeda mass murdering, or will stop them from mass murdering at the cost of freedoms I hold dear.

Ah ha! I've got the solution. Let's all of us who are al-Qaeda's declared enemies declare ourselves Muslims.

......... Crying or Very sad Damn! That won't work either. Al-Qaeda mass murders about as many Muslims as non-Muslims.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 01:18 pm
revel wrote:
Actually if you were really worried about AQ you would want us the get out of Iraq so we can concentrate on real threats from AQ.

AQ in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iran, et cetera, are all real threats. We learned that when we did little about AQ in Afghanistan and anywhere else in the Middle East prior to their 9/11 mass murder of almost 3,000 Americans.

...

revel wrote:
Of course this would be tantamount in admitting being in Iraq has not done us once ounce of good in going after terrorist or doing anything about new recruits being brought over the AQ side.

Now that is a huge exaggeration. While civilian non-murderers in other countries have been mass murdered by AQ since 9/11, none such civilians in the USA have been mass murdered by AQ.

Revel, it really is long past time for you to set aside your hatred of Bush, and let yourself think for yourself instead of letting others think for you.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 02:29 pm
Bush's latest signing statement declares his right to ignore sections of the law establishing a commission to investigate U.S. contractor fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan, expanding whistleblower protections, requiring that U.S. intelligence agencies respond to congressional requests for documents, banning funding for permanent bases in Iraq, and prohibiting funding of any actions that exercise U.S. control over Iraq's oil revenues.



Perhaps it was all about military control over Iraq, its oil and the oil revenues after all?

Whoever would have dreamt such a thing?

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 03:29 pm
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:
Actually if you were really worried about AQ you would want us the get out of Iraq so we can concentrate on real threats from AQ.

AQ in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iran, et cetera, are all real threats. We learned that when we did little about AQ in Afghanistan and anywhere else in the Middle East prior to their 9/11 mass murder of almost 3,000 Americans.

...

revel wrote:
Of course this would be tantamount in admitting being in Iraq has not done us once ounce of good in going after terrorist or doing anything about new recruits being brought over the AQ side.

Now that is a huge exaggeration. While civilian non-murderers in other countries have been mass murdered by AQ since 9/11, none such civilians in the USA have been mass murdered by AQ.

Revel, it really is long past time for you to set aside your hatred of Bush, and let yourself think for yourself instead of letting others think for you.


AQ in Iraq is very small as reports have said but has grown in other areas while we have been Iraq.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/11490.html

http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20070717_release.pdf

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/crsiraq0907.pdf

Quote:
Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQ-I).33 A numerically small but politically significant
component of the insurgency is non-Iraqi, mostly in a faction called Al Qaeda-Iraq
(AQ-I). Increasingly in 2007, U.S. commanders have seemed to equate AQ-I with
the insurgency, even though most of the daily attacks are carried out by Iraqi Sunni
insurgents. AQ-I was founded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was killed in a June
7, 2006, U.S. airstrike. AQ-I has been a U.S. focus from very early on in the war
because, according to U.S. commanders in April 2007, it is responsible for about
90% of the suicide bombings against both combatant and civilian targets. AQ-I is
discussed in detail in CRS Report RL32217,


It is true that AQ has not attacked in the US since 9/11 but Iraq has nothing to do with it since there are other AQ in other parts of the world but we are not there to stop them from coming to "fight us over here."
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 03:37 pm
I know one member by name mysteryman had served in Iranq.
I had not been to iraq nor in USA.
Out of curiosity I wish to know how many A2K members had relaxed or served or visited in Iraq..
I hope some one to respond my question.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 03:57 pm
revel wrote:

...
AQ in Iraq is very small as reports have said but has grown in other areas while we have been Iraq.

How big do you think "very small" is? There were over 4,000 AQ in Iraq before we began exterminating many of them in the Surge. Unfortunately, there are still over a thousand now in Iraq. Only 19 were required to bring off 9/11.
...
revel wrote:
It is true that AQ has not attacked in the US since 9/11 but Iraq has nothing to do with it since there are other AQ in other parts of the world but we are not there to stop them from coming to "fight us over here."

The AQ has lots to do with it. Why do you think so many of the AQ that were outside of Iraq before we invaded it (including many of those who fled Afghanistan after we invaded Iraq) came to Iraq? To watch? I don't think so.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 04:10 pm
Ican; you have reading comprehension problems. Compared with how many insurgents there are in Iraq; the AQ portion has always been small even before the surge. Sunnis tribes decided on their own to distance themselves from them and AQI grew even smaller.

AQ came to all sorts of places in that area after the fall of the Taliban (which has since grown back up) with a relative few coming to Iraq. Most went to Pakistan and have stayed there and grew even bigger.

I know you are going to come back and say about the same; then I will repeat the same and on and on it goes. The difference is that I actually have facts to back up what I post and you don't.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 08:51 pm
revel wrote:
Ican; you have reading comprehension problems. Compared with how many insurgents there are in Iraq; the AQ portion has always been small even before the surge. Sunnis tribes decided on their own to distance themselves from them and AQI grew even smaller.

AQ came to all sorts of places in that area after the fall of the Taliban (which has since grown back up) with a relative few coming to Iraq. Most went to Pakistan and have stayed there and grew even bigger.

I know you are going to come back and say about the same; then I will repeat the same and on and on it goes. The difference is that I actually have facts to back up what I post and you don't.

No! I'm coming back pointing out that you did not answer my question.
ican711nm wrote:
How big do you think "very small" is? There were over 4,000 AQ in Iraq before we began exterminating many of them in the Surge. Unfortunately, there are still over a thousand now in Iraq. Only 19 were required to bring off 9/11.

Truth is, you don't have the facts to back you up, else you would have answered my question.

Instead you compare the number of AQ in Iraq against the number of insurgents in Iraq without knowing what that number of either is.

I'd like to remind you that AQ has been the major target of the Surge since the beginning of the Surge. The AQ in Mosul are the current target of Iraq forces as I write this.

The Sunni insurgents are themselves currently attacking AQ with the help of Iraq forces and the US military. If AQ were really so damn small, why do they get so much attention from the Iraqis as well as the USA? How do your sources explain that?

Those two are additional questions you probably cannot answer correctly.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2008 07:44 am
The actual numbers don't matter because we have the official summarization of those numbers in an official report which said the non-Iraqi componet of the insurgency is numercally small in the quote of the link I previously left.

Another report said AQI are 90 - 95% Iraqi although 80% of suicide bombings were carried out by foreign AQ which is why so much focus is on the foreign componet of the insurgency which was getting better even before the surge when Sunni Tribes had enough of AQ tactics. Which is a positive thing but not my point. My point is that the number of non-Iraqi AQ has always been small. For years Sunni insurgents teamed up with them because they had a similar goal but like I said they got tired of AQ tactics.

Quote:
its makeup is likely 90-95 percent Iraqi.5 Even so, 80 percent of al Qaeda in Iraq suicide
bombings are carried out by foreigners.6 The relationship between al Qaeda in Iraq and the greater al
Qaeda leadership in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border region remains unclear, but the groups share
common goals and openly support one another through the media and sworn loyalty oaths.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/08/05/jonesreportpart1a.pdf

Most Sunni AQI have since broken with the foreign AQ influence and that is why violence has come down. However; there still remains the problems of the factions not being able to really come to any political agreements other than superficial ones which are only good for looking good on paper such as allowing Sunni members back into government jobs which in the final wording actually pushed out more Sunni member in government than it let back in. (left links in the past.)

However that is not my main point in this specific post; my point is that non-Iraqi AQI has always been small in numbers as official reports have said. Apparently the number of foreign AQ in Iraq is small to officials who assess these things for congress and the President. The numbers of AQ members are higher in other parts of the region and always have been.

If we are successful in Mosul of driving out the ever dwindling remaining non-Iraq componet of AQI then we will have zero reason to stay there. If we say we are going to stay there to keep it going in that direction; then we may very well be there for another 100 years like McCain says meanwhile all the threats in other regions of ME and elsewhere just get bigger. We cannot put all our military eggs in one basket for much longer without it causing us much risk.

Quote:
The military's top uniformed officer says U.S. forces are "significantly stressed" by fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan while simultaneously trying to stem the tide of violent extremism elsewhere.

"The pace of ongoing operations has prevented our forces from fully training for the full spectrum of operations and impacts our ability to be ready to counter future threats," Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in testimony prepared for delivery Wednesday.


source

It is just a matter of time until we are forced to reduce our forces in Iraq regardless.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2008 08:54 pm
revel wrote:
The actual numbers don't matter because we have the official summarization of those numbers in an official report which said the non-Iraqi componet of the insurgency is numercally small in the quote of the link I previously left.

Of course the actual numbers matter. How else can one be sure what numerically small actually means? How else can one tell what progress was and is being made against AQ?

revel wrote:
...
My point is that the number of non-Iraqi AQ has always been small. For years Sunni insurgents teamed up with them because they had a similar goal but like I said they got tired of AQ tactics.

Relative to the number 19, how small is small?
Quote:
its makeup is likely 90-95 percent Iraqi... Even so, 80 percent of al Qaeda in Iraq suicide
bombings are carried out by foreigners... The relationship between al Qaeda in Iraq and the greater al Qaeda leadership in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border region remains unclear, but the groups share
common goals and openly support one another through the media and sworn loyalty oaths.

...

revel wrote:
... my point is that non-Iraqi AQI has always been small in numbers as official reports have said. Apparently the number of foreign AQ in Iraq is small to officials who assess these things for congress and the President. The numbers of AQ members are higher in other parts of the region and always have been.

The real question is how small must AQ be to reduce AQ from mass murdering hundreds of non-murderers per month to tens of non-murderers per month?

revel wrote:
If we are successful in Mosul of driving out the ever dwindling remaining non-Iraq componet of AQI then we will have zero reason to stay there. If we say we are going to stay there to keep it going in that direction; then we may very well be there for another 100 years like McCain says meanwhile all the threats in other regions of ME and elsewhere just get bigger. We cannot put all our military eggs in one basket for much longer without it causing us much risk.


What's is risked by leaving Iraq before AQ in Iraq is exterminated?
...
revel wrote:
It is just a matter of time until we are forced to reduce our forces in Iraq regardless.

Regardless of what?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 06:17 am
Regardless of anything you say or the situation in Iraq.

The rest I am tired of going around with you on. The facts are there along with reports.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 08:09 am
But since you are so interested in the numbers; I went to the considerable trouble of trying to find actual numbers for you; don't want to debate it; I'll just leave it.

It is 850; 2.5% of the Sunni Insurgency according to Malcolm Nance who worked with military and intellegence units tracking AQ inside Iraq. The State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research says 1000 of about a total 20,000 - 30,000 full time fighters are non Iraqis. Of the roughly 24,500 prisoners only 280 are foreign nationals.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0710.tilghman.html
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 01:04 pm
revel wrote:
But since you are so interested in the numbers; I went to the considerable trouble of trying to find actual numbers for you; don't want to debate it; I'll just leave it.

It is 850; 2.5% of the Sunni Insurgency according to Malcolm Nance who worked with military and intellegence units tracking AQ inside Iraq. The State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research says 1000 of about a total 20,000 - 30,000 full time fighters are non Iraqis. Of the roughly 24,500 prisoners only 280 are foreign nationals.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0710.tilghman.html

Perhaps you may recall that I previously asserted there were more than 4,000 AQ in Iraq at the start of the Surge, and now there are more than 1,000 AQ in Iraq. One-thousand is more than 9/11's 19 and easily enough to mass murder thousands more non-murderers.


By the way, your repeated "don't want to debate it" syndrome reminds me of a cartoon I first saw in the 1970s. It was a picture of an angry face with the caption: "My mind is made up; don't bother me with the facts!"
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 01:07 pm
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:
But since you are so interested in the numbers; I went to the considerable trouble of trying to find actual numbers for you; don't want to debate it; I'll just leave it.

It is 850; 2.5% of the Sunni Insurgency according to Malcolm Nance who worked with military and intellegence units tracking AQ inside Iraq. The State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research says 1000 of about a total 20,000 - 30,000 full time fighters are non Iraqis. Of the roughly 24,500 prisoners only 280 are foreign nationals.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0710.tilghman.html

Perhaps you may recall that I previously asserted there were more than 4,000 AQ in Iraq at the start of the Surge, and now there are more than 1,000 AQ in Iraq. One-thousand is more than 9/11's 19 and easily enough to mass murder thousands more non-murderers.


By the way, your repeated "don't want to debate it" syndrome reminds me of a cartoon I first saw in the 1970s. It was a picture of an angry face with the caption: "My mind is made up; don't bother me with the facts!"


By the way,

19 people didn't commit 9/11. They were only the front-line troops. They were funded by a huge base of support from AQ and bin Laden's other terrorist affiliates.

It's like saying that Iraq is being ran by the US with the 150k soldier we have there. False representation of the true forces behind it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 01:22 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:
But since you are so interested in the numbers; I went to the considerable trouble of trying to find actual numbers for you; don't want to debate it; I'll just leave it.

It is 850; 2.5% of the Sunni Insurgency according to Malcolm Nance who worked with military and intellegence units tracking AQ inside Iraq. The State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research says 1000 of about a total 20,000 - 30,000 full time fighters are non Iraqis. Of the roughly 24,500 prisoners only 280 are foreign nationals.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0710.tilghman.html

Perhaps you may recall that I previously asserted there were more than 4,000 AQ in Iraq at the start of the Surge, and now there are more than 1,000 AQ in Iraq. One-thousand is more than 9/11's 19 and easily enough to mass murder thousands more non-murderers.


By the way, your repeated "don't want to debate it" syndrome reminds me of a cartoon I first saw in the 1970s. It was a picture of an angry face with the caption: "My mind is made up; don't bother me with the facts!"


By the way,

19 people didn't commit 9/11. They were only the front-line troops. They were funded by a huge base of support from AQ and bin Laden's other terrorist affiliates.

It's like saying that Iraq is being ran by the US with the 150k soldier we have there. False representation of the true forces behind it.

Cycloptichorn

There you go again distorting the meaning of what I write. The one-thousand "front-line" AQ still in Iraq continue to be "funded by a huge base of support from AQ and bin Laden's other terrorist affiliates." Consequently, additional groups of 19 AQ members in Iraq could again perpetrate 9/11s or worse equivalents, if they are not exterminated first.

By the way, if there were no "front-line" AQ, there would be no AQ mass murders of non-murderers.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 01:26 pm
Violations of 'Islamic teachings' take deadly toll on Iraqi women
Crimes against women in Iraq's south have included killings and amputations

By Arwa Damon
CNN

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The images in the Basra police file are nauseating: Page after page of women killed in brutal fashion -- some strangled to death, their faces disfigured; others beheaded. All bear signs of torture.

The women are killed, police say, because they failed to wear a headscarf or because they ignored other "rules" that secretive fundamentalist groups want to enforce.

"Fear, fear is always there," says 30-year-old Safana, an artist and university professor. "We don't know who to be afraid of. Maybe it's a friend or a student you teach. There is no break, no security. I don't know who to be afraid of."

Her fear is justified. Iraq's second-largest city, Basra, is a stronghold of conservative Shia groups. As many as 133 women were killed in Basra last year -- 79 for violation of "Islamic teachings" and 47 for so-called honor killings, according to IRIN, the news branch of the U.N.'s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

One glance through the police file is enough to understand the consequences. Basra's police chief, Gen. Abdul Jalil Khalaf, flips through the file, pointing to one unsolved case after another. Watch Khalaf show evidence of the brutality ยป

"I think so far, we have been unable to tackle this problem properly," he says. "There are many motives for these crimes and parties involved in killing women, by strangling, beheading, chopping off their hands, legs, heads."

"When I came to Basra a year ago," he says, "two women were killed in front of their kids. Their blood was flowing in front of their kids, they were crying. Another woman was killed in front of her 6-year-old son, another in front of her 11-year-old child, and yet another who was pregnant."

The killers enforcing their own version of Islamic justice are rarely caught, while women live in fear.

Boldly splattered in red paint just outside the main downtown market, a chilling sign reads: "We warn against not wearing a headscarf and wearing makeup. Those who do not abide by this will be punished. God is our witness, we have notified you."

The attacks on the women of Basra have intensified since British forces withdrew to their base at the airport back in September, police say. Iraqi security forces took over after British troops pulled back, but are heavily infiltrated by militias.

And tracking the perpetrators of these crimes is nearly impossible, Khalaf says, adding that he doesn't have control of the thousands of policemen and officers.

"We're trying to trace crimes carried out by an anonymous enemy," he says.

Amnesty International has raised concern about the increasing violence toward women in Iraq, saying abductions, rapes and "honor killings" are on the rise.

"Politically active women, those who did not follow a strict dress code, and women [who are] human rights defenders were increasingly at risk of abuses, including by armed groups and religious extremists," Amnesty said in a 2007 report.

Sometimes, it's just the color of a woman's headscarf that can draw unwanted attention.

"One time, one of my female colleagues commented on the color of my headscarf," Safana says. "She said it would draw attention ... [and I should] avoid it and stick to colors like gray, brown and black."

This extremist ideology enrages many secular Muslim women, who say it's a misrepresentation of Islam.

Sawsan, another woman who works at a university, says the message from the radicals to women is simple: "They seem to be sending us a message to stay at home and keep your mouth shut."


After the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003, Sawsan says, the situation was "the best." But now, she says, it's "the worst."

"We thought there would be freedom and democracy and women would have their rights. But all the things we were promised have not come true. There is only fear and horror." http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/02/08/iraq.women/index.html
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 02:26 pm
Mission accompalished
Blueflame and
PLAYBOY is happy and his private secratry
JESUS is immensely pleased
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:38 am
AQ in Iraq has gotten better because Iraqi AQ members grew disenchanted with AQ; so much so that the organizers of AQ in Iraq ordered the few non Iraqi AQ members to stop using those tactics.


Quote:
Baghdad: Al Qaida in Iraq is telling its followers to soften their tactics to regain popular support in the western province of Anbar, where Sunni tribes have turned against the organisation and begun working with US forces, according to group leaders and American intelligence officials.

The new approach was outlined last month in an internal communique that orders members to avoid killing Sunni civilians who have not sympathised with the US-backed tribesmen or the government.

From internal documents and interviews with members of Al Qaida in Iraq, a picture emerges of an organisation in disarray but increasingly aware that its harsh policies - such as punishing women who don't cover their heads - have eroded its popular support.

Over the past year, the group has been driven out of many of its strongholds. The group's leadership is now jettisoning some of its past tactics to refocus attacks on American troops, Sunnis cooperating closely with US forces, and Iraq's infrastructure.


source

Two thirds of those polled of Americans want us to get out of Iraq as a way of stimulating the economy.

Quote:


source

With strains on the military and the strains on the economy; it will be left up to the next president to pull us out of Iraq. It ain't going to be McCain if he keeps talking about staying in Iraq for another 100 years; apparently most of Americans don't want to stay a day longer than it takes to get us out. It is telling that two thirds think getting out of Iraq will help the economy but only 18% of republicans think so. Republicans are not looking good for the presidency right now.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 01:03 pm
Propaganda is much more important than actually caring properly for soldiers

Quote:
No Funds in Bush Budget For Troop-Benefits Plan
He Made Proposal in January Speech


By Michael Abramowitz and Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, February 9, 2008; Page A01

President Bush drew great applause during his State of the Union address last month when he called on Congress to allow U.S. troops to transfer their unused education benefits to family members. "Our military families serve our nation, they inspire our nation, and tonight our nation honors them," he said.

A week later, however, when Bush submitted his $3.1 trillion federal budget to Congress, he included no funding for such an initiative, which government analysts calculate could cost $1 billion to $2 billion annually.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/08/AR2008020804136.html?nav=hcmodule
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 03:24 pm
Here's a dilly. As a number of reporters have previously written, hiring into the Green Zone has been marked by ideological cronyism (party loyalists get the gigs) and not according to other more rational or sensible criteria. Case in point is Manuel Miranda. He doesn't like the state department. What a surprise.

Quote:
Memo Blasts State Dept. Iraq Effort
GOP Loyalist Says U.S. Brought 'Worst of America' to Iraq

In a confidential memo, a long-time Republican operative who has served in the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad for the past year says the State Department's efforts in Iraq are so poorly managed they "would be considered willfully negligent if not criminal" if done in the private sector.

"We have brought to Iraq the worst of America -- our bureaucrats," writes Manuel Miranda in the memo, which was addressed to U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and cc'd to "ALCON" or "all concerned" at the State Department.


"You are doing a job for which you are not prepared as a bureaucracy or as leaders," Miranda writes. "The American and Iraqi people deserve better."

Asked to respond to the allegations made in Miranda's memo, State Department spokesman Tom Casey said Miranda is entitled to his opinion, but "We think Ambassador Crocker and his team are doing a very good job under extremely challenging circumstances. We have great confidence in their ability to carry out their mission."

Miranda previously held senior Republican leadership positions on Capitol Hill, including counsel for then-Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. While on Capitol Hill, Miranda was embroiled in a controversy when he obtained a confidential memorandum written by Senate Democrats and leaked it the press. Democrats accused Miranda of hacking into their computer systems. Miranda said the Democratic staffers had left the memo on a computer server accessable to all Senate staffers.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=4263378
0 Replies
 
 

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