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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 06:47 pm
News bias.

CBS Fired Antiwar Batiste -- But CBS Consultant O'Hanlon Advocated For Surge
May 11, 2007 -- 12:28 PM EST // View Comments (52) // Post a Comment
As MSNBC reported late yesterday, retired General John Batiste has been fired as an analyst for CBS News because he appeared in a VoteVets ad slamming President Bush and advocating for withdrawal from Iraq.

I just checked in with CBS for an explanation, and the network gave me this statement:

General Batiste inadvertently violated our standards by appearing in the advertisement. Therefore, we and the General mutually agreed to end his consultant's arrangement with CBS News.
When I asked CBS spokesperson Sandy Genelius to clarify which standards she was talking about, Genelius told me that CBS had "internal" standards that dictated against this sort of advocacy, which she defined as "expressing a public opinion that is coming from an advocacy point of view." She added: "You are not allowed to take a public position on an issue." Think Progress got a similar explanation from Genelius today.

But I've dug up something pretty interesting. On December 31, 2006 (via Nexis), the Brookings Institution's Michael O'Hanlon appeared on CBS as a "CBS News Consultant" -- the same type of arrangement Batiste had. O'Hanlon, however, has repeatedly "advocated" in favor of the "surge."
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 06:50 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
News bias.

CBS Fired Antiwar Batiste -- But CBS Consultant O'Hanlon Advocated For Surge
May 11, 2007 -- 12:28 PM EST // View Comments (52) // Post a Comment
As MSNBC reported late yesterday, retired General John Batiste has been fired as an analyst for CBS News because he appeared in a VoteVets ad slamming President Bush and advocating for withdrawal from Iraq.

I just checked in with CBS for an explanation, and the network gave me this statement:

General Batiste inadvertently violated our standards by appearing in the advertisement. Therefore, we and the General mutually agreed to end his consultant's arrangement with CBS News.
When I asked CBS spokesperson Sandy Genelius to clarify which standards she was talking about, Genelius told me that CBS had "internal" standards that dictated against this sort of advocacy, which she defined as "expressing a public opinion that is coming from an advocacy point of view." She added: "You are not allowed to take a public position on an issue." Think Progress got a similar explanation from Genelius today.

But I've dug up something pretty interesting. On December 31, 2006 (via Nexis), the Brookings Institution's Michael O'Hanlon appeared on CBS as a "CBS News Consultant" -- the same type of arrangement Batiste had. O'Hanlon, however, has repeatedly "advocated" in favor of the "surge."


Lets see, Batiste worked for CBS,and Scanlon worked for the Brookings Institute.

Gee,I wonder why CBS couldnt fire someone that DIDNT WORK FOR THEM.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 07:41 pm
i recommend you all take a look a joe nation's : "NO END IN SIGHT"

certainly provides ever more insight into the troubles in/with iraq .
hbg
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:21 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ci: The US does not have the manpower or treasure to spend in Iraq for the next ten years. In case you haven't noticed, the world economy is now in a tizzy. We can't continue to spend money on bullets and bombs while our own infrastructure breaks down.

ican: We've got the manpower and treasure to pay for both the required ordnance and the required maintenance of infrastructure. It's better that some of our infrastructure occassionally falls down while we are in Iraq, than frequently blows up after we leave Iraq before winning.

And how do you suppose they are going to accomplish this? Details, please.

First, you supply your evidence that your assertion, "the US does not have the manpower or treasure to spend in Iraq for the next ten years," is true. Details, please.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:27 pm
ican, You must be blind, deaf and dumb. It's been common knowledge that our troops have been overstretched and over-used for the past several years. Our soldiers are put in harms way for longer periods and more tours of duty. More are committing suicide. They are now recruiting men without a high school education, and even with people with criminal records.

You are plainly stupid.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:30 pm
More New U.S. Troops Have Criminal Records
About one in 10 U.S. Army recruits has needed a "moral waiver" because of a criminal record this year -- a figure that's 2 1/2 times the percentage of recruits who needed one four years ago, The Boston Globe reports.
According to figures from the U.S. Army Recruiting Command, "11.6 percent of new active-duty and Army Reserve troops in 2007 have received a so-called 'moral waiver,' up from 7.9 percent in fiscal year 2006." In fiscal 2003 and 2004, 4.6 percent of new recruits got waivers.

One expert says this change can lead to increased discipline problems.

"Somebody who has demonstrated themselves to be guilty of misbehavior in civilian life has a good chance of behaving in the same way in the military," said John Hutson, judge advocate general of the Navy until 2000 and now dean of the Franklin Pierce Law Center at the University of New Hampshire.
Hutson said in the 1970s, the last time moral waivers were given out in large numbers, many of the soldiers who needed them ended up in military court, often for what he calls "frustration offenses" -- drug use, burglary and violent behavior.

William Arkin, the national and homeland security blogger at The Washington Post, writes that right now, the Army is only meeting its recruitment goals because of the way it's stretching the rules. That includes accepting recruits without a high-school diploma and those previously rejected for being physically unfit, along with those with criminal records, he writes.

Is it OK for the Army to meet its goals this way? Does it hurt the military in the long run, or is the shorter term goal of meeting recruitment targets more important in the face of the Iraq war and other commitments around the globe? Love to hear your opinions.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:45 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, If you know how to read and understand the English language, and understand the underlying nuance, please read the following article. I really don't give you too much hope, because you fail to understand what a failure Bush's war is.


Shiite militia expands grip in Baghdad

I know what a failure Bush's war has been up to now. I've repeatedly agreed Bush is incompetent. I've repeatedly said what we need now is someone to replace Bush who is at least less incompetent. By God you are thick!

I'll try a little algebra.

What you don't appear competent/willing to discuss are: A = the consequences of our leaving without success versus B = the consequences of our staying until success.

If A is worse than B, then we should stay until success.

If B is worse than A, then we should leave without success.

Which do you think worse and why?

You know, or should know, by now that I think A is far worse than B. I have provided my evidence here repeatedly for why I think so. So far you have not presented any evidence on this issue.

Bush isn't the issue now. A and B are the issue now! Set your compliance with the standard anti-Bush polemic aside and think for yourself now.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:51 pm
HERE: We should leave Iraq as soon as possible in an orderly manner that will be the most efficient and safe for our troops.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:52 pm
Paste that on your forehead, so you can view it every morning when you shave.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 08:56 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
More New U.S. Troops Have Criminal Records
About one in 10 U.S. Army recruits has needed a "moral waiver" because of a criminal record this year -- a figure that's 2 1/2 times the percentage of recruits who needed one four years ago, The Boston Globe reports.
According to figures from the U.S. Army Recruiting Command, "11.6 percent of new active-duty and Army Reserve troops in 2007 have received a so-called 'moral waiver,' up from 7.9 percent in fiscal year 2006." In fiscal 2003 and 2004, 4.6 percent of new recruits got waivers.

One expert says this change can lead to increased discipline problems.

"Somebody who has demonstrated themselves to be guilty of misbehavior in civilian life has a good chance of behaving in the same way in the military," said John Hutson, judge advocate general of the Navy until 2000 and now dean of the Franklin Pierce Law Center at the University of New Hampshire.
Hutson said in the 1970s, the last time moral waivers were given out in large numbers, many of the soldiers who needed them ended up in military court, often for what he calls "frustration offenses" -- drug use, burglary and violent behavior.

William Arkin, the national and homeland security blogger at The Washington Post, writes that right now, the Army is only meeting its recruitment goals because of the way it's stretching the rules. That includes accepting recruits without a high-school diploma and those previously rejected for being physically unfit, along with those with criminal records, he writes.

Is it OK for the Army to meet its goals this way? Does it hurt the military in the long run, or is the shorter term goal of meeting recruitment targets more important in the face of the Iraq war and other commitments around the globe? Love to hear your opinions.

Clearly, it depends on the actual crimes committed by these 11.6 percenters and their criminal records since. For example, if they were arrested and convicted for drug possession and have not been convicted again for that crime, they may be worth the risk. Yes, former criminals have been known to reform on occassion.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 09:00 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
HERE: We should leave Iraq as soon as possible in an orderly manner that will be the most efficient and safe for our troops.

I shall try again.

Quote:
What you don't appear competent/willing to discuss are: A = the consequences of our leaving without success versus B = the consequences of our staying until success.

If A is worse than B, then we should stay until success.

If B is worse than A, then we should leave without success.

Which do you think worse and why?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 09:08 pm
The SUCCESS is in the leaving, dummy!
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 09:35 pm
This effort in Iraq by the USA which was to cost 50 billion dollars, be paid for through oil revenues **and be over and done with by August of 2003 has thus far cost in actual expensed funds over 450 billion dollars ***Cost of War with no hope of ever recovering any of those funds through oil dollars.

And that is the good news, that is the low figure.
Oh, and doesn't include any of the money spent thus far in Afghanistan.

The New York Times in January 2007 printed an estimate of the full cost of the war(s) at 1.2 to 2 Trillion Dollars. LINK Everyone gasped but here we are six months later and no one is arguing that David Leonhardt's figures were off the mark.

Meanwhile, no one is saying, not nobody, much of anything about estimates recently offered of troops levels in the 70,000 range to be in Iraq as late as the year 2017. That's fifteen YEARS longer than what was estimated by Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz. Oh, and this wasn't Mother Jones' writing those figures, it was the Congressional Budget Office Theirs is a slightly lower figure than the Times, only 1.1 Trillion dollars. What a potential savings that is!!!

But that's only the money. Ican is right. We can get the money, we are the richest fricken country in the world, we can get the money just as Richard Nixon said, we can get it.

But that's not the real cost of this war. Leaving aside, as this President has done, the 3400 dead Americans, thus far there are over 20,000 badly wounded or disabled veterans. The VA, never the best we could offer our wounded -isn't that a shame for the richest nation on earth?--is at the breaking point now in trying to treat the thousands of wounded under it's care. And those are the men and women who have VISIBLE wounds. The trauma of this conflict will bring down horrors upon anyone who serves even one tour of duty over there, (I have two friends who are now both on their second and third tours.) and on their families and communities.

We have done a horrible thing to many of these brave men and women, we have sent them into an unplanned for state of chaos and we as a nation will pay dearly for the myopic visions of this President.

We have so sullied our role as a guiding light of democracy that one would be hard pressed to find a single nation in the world, other than Britain and Australia, who have any trust in our ability to provide justice.

We may still be the land of the free and the home of the brave, but few believe there is any hope that America can lead others to that state.

By the way, the consequences of our leaving without success are as over estimated by this administration as their underestimations were of the cost of the war. We have achieved a level of hatred and distrust by all the sides of this conflict that far exceeds our ability to amend.

Joe(we need to be out by the New Year.)Nation




**January 2003, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the budget office had come up with "a number that's something under $50 billion." He and other officials expressed optimism that Iraq itself would help shoulder the cost once the world market was reopened to its rich supply of oil.MSNBC
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 09:58 pm
Thank you, Joe(spot on)Nation!

BTW, we've lost over 3,700 soldiers and over 25,000 wounded. We don't count those who came home with wounds but later died - or committed suicide..
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 08:24 am
One of many reasons why the US can't win with 170,000 troops.



U.S. general: Iran trains Iraq's Shiite fighters"They go back and forth. There's a porous border."
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 12:05 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The SUCCESS is in the leaving, dummy!

Rolling Eyes You continue to avoid answering the question. Why?

Quote:
What you don't appear competent/willing to discuss are: A = the consequences of our leaving without success versus B = the consequences of our staying until success.

If A is worse than B, then we should stay until success.

If B is worse than A, then we should leave without success.

Which do you think worse and why?


I'll simplify the question for you by parsing it into two questions and making it clear I'm asking about lack of success or success in Iraq.

Try to remember:
A = the consequences of our leaving without success in Iraq
versus
B = the consequences of our staying until success in Iraq.

Which alternative, A or B do you think will result in the fewest mass murders of Iraqi non-murderers over the next ten years, and why do you think so?

Which alternative, A or B do you think will result in the fewest mass murders of American non-murderers over the next ten years, and why do you think so?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 02:17 pm
Army too stretched if Iraq buildup lasts "The longer that you keep American forces there, the longer you give this process to solidify and to make sure that it's not going to slide back," said Frederick Kagan, an American Enterprise Institute analyst who recently returned from an eight-day visit to Iraq. "The sooner you take them out, the more you run the risk that enemies will come in and try to disrupt."

Kagan, a leading supporter of the current buildup strategy, said any decision to maintain force levels would have to take into account the effects on the Army. That would include, he said, the strains of sending Guard units back to Iraq more rapidly than Pentagon policy allows or keeping active duty units there longer than 15 months.

"You have the same tradeoff at every moment in this process, which is the institutional well-being of the Army versus what is felt is necessary to win the war," Kagan said.

These guys need their heads examined. The violence has only slowed down, not disappeared. The reason it slowed down is very simple; they're moving to other areas and also waiting for the surge to end.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 02:22 pm
ican, Your stupid questions has only relevance to Bushco and his war-mongers - and that includes you. Your "what if" questions doesn't justify the sacrifice for a cause or end game that's not even articulated by Bush.

If you support this war, send yourself and our family there. I just don't wish to sacrifice my family or friends in a stupid war that's only gotten worse in five years.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 02:38 pm
watched a short but very revealing interview with BRUCE RIEDEL of the brookings institute on CNN .
there is currently a two minute video clip on the CNN website - look for it on the left side , second row "IRAQ AWASH IN WEAPONS" - don't know how long it will stay there .(SEE LINK BELOW)
the way i understand him , there is little hope of success for the U.S. in iraq : 200,000 small arms missing , questionable loyalty by the iraqi army and police ... much of what many here have talked about before .
i would think with his kind of background , it is difficult to question either his expertise or his loyalty - unless anyone questioning current policies is considered disloyal .
it's worth two minutes of your time imo .
hbg

Quote:


SOURCE :
BRUCE RIEDEL - BIO


VIDEO CLIP :
BRUCE RIEDEL - INTERVIEW SEE : IRAQ AWASH IN WEAPONS
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 03:13 pm
hbg, That 4,000 deaths of our coalition forces do not include those soldiers who came home with injuries, but later died at home. It is also anticipated that at least one-third of those with injuries will suffer PTS. Many of them have been denied medical care by our veteran's hospitals, and are walking the streets of America as our homeless.
0 Replies
 
 

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