1
   

Pit bull kills 5-year-old girl.

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 09:06 pm
ossobuco wrote:
Well, that was the link I gave, Tico, re the previous long argument thread and the Denver ban. Lot of heavies weighed in there.


Yes, osso. Thanks for posting the link. (I mentioned that in my last post, btw. :wink: )
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 09:07 pm
Ontario has a breed-specific ban as well.

It's been about a year since anyone was able to breed any dogs that fit the legal definition of pit bull type dogs here. The remaining dogs had to be neutered, and have to be walked muzzled.

I'm not convinced it's the best way to handle the problem, but it is a way to attempt to begin to deal with the problem of bad breeders combined with bad owners, and the inherent dangers of some breeds.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 09:10 pm
Ah, Tico, I seem to have reading disability today, I missed something on a post in another thread too.

On the subject, I'll just agree right there with ehBeth.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 09:17 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Ontario has a breed-specific ban as well.

It's been about a year since anyone was able to breed any dogs that fit the legal definition of pit bull type dogs here. The remaining dogs had to be neutered, and have to be walked muzzled.

I'm not convinced it's the best way to handle the problem, but it is a way to attempt to begin to deal with the problem of bad breeders combined with bad owners, and the inherent dangers of some breeds.


I think we have done, or are strongly considering, doing that here.

I think the breeds are a problem, which is exacerbated by there being a particular group of people who tend to be strongly attracted to such dogs (and no, I am not saying that all, or even a majority, of people that like them fall into this category.)


I call this the phenomenon of the crim dog.....ie the kind of person who wants to be seen as really tough, and uses the dog as a kind of signal of this, and who is often inordinately sensitive to imagined slights and reacts aggressively. They often encourage their dogs to do so as well, and may combine this with deliberate or ignorant cruelty.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 12:04 pm
shewolfnm wrote:
^Laughing^


little dogs annoy the **** outta me.


I think, the only solution is that everyone should just be cat people Smile

how many cat bites have you heard of??


When I was a child my neighbor had a mean cat! It was also injured from cat fights it had been through. Now this cat knew me well - I used to pet and stuff. One day when I went over to visit (summer so I had shorts on), that damn cat jumped from behind a bush, jumped up on the leg and dug its claws in, bit me and then took off all within seconds.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 12:06 pm
Louis does that to my wife and kids all the time. He's just bored.

He doesn't do it to me. I like to think it's out of respect for the alpha male but more than likely I smell bad to him.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 12:07 pm
Another thought on the stats is you need to also consider how many of each breed is in the population. If for instance there are only five pit bulls out of a population of 100 dogs and 5% of bites are from pit bulls well that is a whole different story than if there are 50 pit bulls in the population. So that stats really don't give you a full picture.

A thought on owning a pit bull - We had a neighbor that got a pit bull puppy from a local shelter. Whenever some one mentioned pit bull she said no, it's a bull terrier (same thing). Any way that puppy was so sweet and lovable. It would jump on you and kiss you and wag its tail. Although the woman was very loving to the puppy, as the puppy started to grow she could barely hold onto its leash. The puppy was so strong even though it was tiny. It never showed any aggression.

My husband said don't let the kids near that dog - she could barely hold onto him. I followed his advice - even though the dog never seemed aggressive - seemed he would lick you to death. One day he pulled away and bit an elderly neighbor. Fortunately he was fine (the man that is). She had to put the dog down or else they would have sued.

I agree there are some breeds that are just meaner than others even with loving owners.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 12:19 pm
Linkat, interesting you posted that re the number of a given breed in certain population.

There was an article in our paper a while back that was trying to make out the PB's really didn't bite that much.

It gave some statistic that over a year or whatevers period there were x amount (let's just say 100) of bites and that surprisingly a rather large percentage of them where from golden retriever.

Fortunatley, in the same article, someone shouted "the emperors naked" by stating that of course there would be more GR bites, there's like 500 times the number of GR's than let's say PB's in this city.

duh. Do the math.

That's another example of making numbers say whatever you want them to.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 12:22 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
Linkat, interesting you posted that re the number of a given breed in certain population.

There was an article in our paper a while back that was trying to make out the PB's really didn't bite that much.

It gave some statistic that over a year or whatevers period there were x amount (let's just say 100) of bites and that surprisingly a rather large percentage of them where from golden retriever.

Fortunatley, in the same article, someone shouted "the emperors naked" by stating that of course there would be more GR bites, there's like 500 times the number of GR's than let's say PB's in this city.

duh. Do the math.

That's another example of making numbers say whatever you want them to.


I knew taking that stats class would eventually help me in some way.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:28 pm
Chai Tea wrote:

I find it very likely people don't know what kind of dog some breeds, like a pit bull looks like.
Someone from a generation that knowing the breed was that important, "it's just a dog"...to people whose cultures aren't into dogs "it's a big brown dog"


Sure, everyone could pick out a poodle if it's got the poodle cut, but if it's not got the signature hair style, I'll bet many would confuse it with something else.

I see dogs in the park all the time that I know are some kind of specific breed, but I really don't know what.


You don't have to be "into breeds" to recognize a pit bull. Again, I would be very suprised to hear many people say they couldn't recognize a pit bull dog.

Also, on a side note...
Poodles are probably more vicious than most dogs and most people don't think of them that way.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:50 pm
Truthfully it isn't easy to identify a true pit bull terrier from among many other very similar breeds. They are also historically significant.

http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/WWIPitWithFlag.jpg
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:51 pm
See if you can pick out the one pit bull:

http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullFindIT.html
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:01 pm
16?

23 is confusing, as that's a puppy.

Quite a few of those are mastiff or mastiff cross. There are a few staffy/crosses as well.
0 Replies
 
cyphercat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:15 pm
Okay, what's a Labrador doing on there? And those Jack Russels? Laughing Is there really anybody that might confuse a lab or a Jack Russel with a pit bull? <tee hee>
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:17 pm
1. Boxer
2.Mastiff type
3.Staffy/possibly cross.
4.Gawd knows....?
5. Viemeraner (sp?)
6.Hound of some description. Beagle cross?
7.Horrible looking bugger. Staff/mastiffcross?
8.Looks like a labby.
9.Toser?.
10. Young punks (unknown)
11. Unknown, but familiar......I'll get back to you.
12. Rotty.
13. mastiff/ staff cross?
14.Boxer/cross with unknown?
15.Close cousins of 13.
16.Pitbull or pitbull cross.
17.Pup...hard to tell.
18. Nope....don't know.
19. Looks vaguely similar to a heeler.
20.English bull terrier.
21.Mastiff.
22.Mastiff again, or mastiff cross.
23.Pup.....could be pitbull or pitbull cross.
24.Bulldog.
25.Blue heeler dog?

NB....your bulldogs look significantly different to ours, I believe, as they have been bred in different directions for quite a few generations.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:21 pm
Having now clicked on 16, at least I was right on the pitbull.

I'll now check my other scores......
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:25 pm
Blimey, there are several breeds I've never even heard of, and have never seen in the UK.

It's quite remarkable how the bulldogs differ nowadays. Our lot have been bred for their wrinkles, I think. Half of them have eye problems due to the folds of skin, and have to have facelifts. They also have breathing problems due to the extremely short snout.
Personally, I think the Yanks have done a far better job with them.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:28 pm
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
See if you can pick out the one pit bull:

http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullFindIT.html


Daym, I failed miserably. I went for the bloodhound or the other blood thing. I always thought it's the nose thing - like the Target dog has. Strange.

I have a weary respect for pit bulls (I like them in principle, but am a bit scared), knowing their jaws are ten times (or however many) stronger than ordinary jaws and that they clamp and freeze in attack, whether the dog wants it or not. I would not ban them, but regulate the dogowners. What needs attention is dog abuse and dog fights. Some regulation is in order, but killing out the entire breed? Not.
As for this unfortunate family - as much as it's sad for the girl and the grandmother, it is unexcusable that the dog with violent history was near a sleeping four year old unattended. The family will have to learn to live with this guilt, as they are just as guilty if not more as the dog in question. I know nothing of the owner and the other dogs he is said to own, but the recorded complaints from the neighbors are surely a warning sign. This case certainly shows a lot of human, not breed, error.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:35 pm
In the other thread which has been mentioned, i posted a link to an excellent site which is concerned with dog bite law (in the United States). It is maintained by a lawyer in Los Angeles:

Dog Bite Law-dot-com

From his statistics page:

Quote:
There is a dog bite epidemic in the United States. There are almost 5 million victims annually -- about 2% of the entire population. 800,000 need medical attention. 1,000 per day need treatment in hospital emergency rooms. Between 15 and 20 die per year. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by insurance.


Mr. Phillips makes the point that pit bulls and rottweilers are responsible for dog bite homicides overwhelmingly, but points out this creates a false impression about the efficacy of laws which ban pit bulls and/or rottweilers. He states that dog bite homicides have remained stable at about 15 to 20 per year, but that all reported dog bite incidents are increasing--he says 5,000,000 per year in the United States. It is a rather long passage, so you can read it at the dog bite homicide section.

Miss Wabbit may find this report interesting: A study of dog attacks in Adelaide, Australia.

Finally, Mr. Phillips makes the point that legislation which only focuses on pit bulls and rottweilers ignores a growing dog bite epidemic:

Quote:
In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that:

* Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.

* An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).

* Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.


A caveat: the site i have linked serves to a large extent as a promotion for Mr. Phillips. However, he lists the sources of his statistics, and links them, and provides a good deal of linked information on this topic.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:36 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Truthfully it isn't easy to identify a true pit bull terrier from among many other very similar breeds. They are also historically significant.

http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/WWIPitWithFlag.jpg


But it's easy to identify a pit bull dog based on the very distinguishable features.

No one asked anyone to know what specific breed any dog was....I just said that I don't know many people who wouldn't say "oooo, look...it's a pit bull" at any dog that resembled one.
0 Replies
 
 

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