The World According To Jimmy Carter

I won't dispute that Carter has a right to be heard. I think, though, it is fair game to question whether something disingenuous or incompetent 'deserves' to be heard. In the serious issue of Israel/Palestine and the other issues simmering in the Middle East, I think it extremely important that our national leaders get it right and that they are called out on it when they get it wrong.

Apart from the book, Carter's unwavering defense of Arafat who made zero efforts for peace between Israel and Palestine and Carter's consistent non-recognition of Israels efforts for peace between Israel and Palestine adds a huge amount of credibility to what Stein, Dershowitz, the Washington post all say about Carter's position on that.

And if they all dispute Carter's version about that, it is a good bet that they got it right and he got it wrong about the rest too. (I don't think anybody has said Israel is perfect either and has made no errors of either commission or omission.)

I did ask you (FD) however, how you know Carter's book reads like a memoirs rather than as a history.

LoneStarMadam wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

Sorry, I need something a little more specific then that before I'm going to trash a man.

Ok, good for you, we are all free to our own opinions & should have some facts before we do form that opinion.
I don't know how old you are, but I was an adult when Carter was the president, it was awful for those of us living/working overseas on a US military base. Since his presidency, he has done some good with the Habitat for Humanity project, however, he has also done some harm with his meddeling.

I agree with georgeob1 who says (I paraphrase) that he believes Carter was a good man but a bad leader. I wasn't old enough to care when he was president, but I do believe he has good intentions and has done a lot of good. I don't agree with his religious take on things, though, but whatever works for others I can't judge.

FreeDuck wrote:

Boosted images of both (MAPS) can be found here.

season's greetings, ducks !

i looked at the maps you provided... and from what i can tell, they are not identical works in copyright terms.

the shape of israel and it's surrounds are the same, but hey, that's the way that the world has agreed they look. it would be the same with two professionally drawn maps of the u.s. or the u.k. or whatever.

could be wrong, i don't think the case is gonna go anywhere.

He probably is a very decent man. But a rewrite of history born out of anti-Israeli or worse, anti-Semitism, is not a decent act.

To put things in perspective, here is the 1980 electoral map. The red states are the ones Carter won and as I recall, all of those were by razor thin margins.

Foxfyre wrote:

He probably is a very decent man. But a rewrite of history born out of anti-Israeli or worse, anti-Semitism, is not a decent act.

Please support these accusations or I have to beg you to stop making them.

To put things in perspective, here is the 1980 electoral map. The red states are the ones Carter won and as I recall, all of those were by razor thin margins.

LoneStarMadam wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

Sorry, I need something a little more specific then that before I'm going to trash a man.

Ok, good for you, we are all free to our own opinions & should have some facts before we do form that opinion.
I don't know how old you are, but I was an adult when Carter was the president, it was awful for those of us living/working overseas on a US military base. Since his presidency, he has done some good with the Habitat for Humanity project, however, he has also done some harm with his meddeling.

I agree with georgeob1 who says (I paraphrase) that he believes Carter was a good man but a bad leader. I wasn't old enough to care when he was president, but I do believe he has good intentions and has done a lot of good. I don't agree with his religious take on things, though, but whatever works for others I can't judge.

For heavens sake, I've posted an article with Stein's comments, a book report by Dershowitz, and a book report from the Washington Post, all asserting to or suggesting that fact plus my own witness of Carter's anti-Israel sentiments. How much support do you require?

Okay. But I thought the magnitude of his loss might suggest that the American people weren't as impressed with Carter's efforts as Carter seems to be impressed wtih them. (This is also referenced in the aforementioned article/book reports.)

In the equal time department, here is what Jimmy Carter says to the critics in his own defense:

Speaking frankly about Israel and Palestine
Jimmy Carter says his recent book is drawing knee-jerk accusations of anti-Israel bias.

....
Alan Dershowitz called the book's title "indecent."
...

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-carter8dec08,0,7544738.story?coll=la-opinion-center

And all third person accounts. To support the charge of anti-semitism, I require at the very least a quote from the accused or some documented action of the accused that demonstrates that he is an anti-semite. What you've posted are other people's overinflated and unsubstantiated accusations. The accusation that he is rewriting history is also not supported by anything but conjecture.

FD writes

Quote:

And all third person accounts. To support the charge of anti-semitism, I require at the very least a quote from the accused or some documented action of the accused that demonstrates that he is an anti-semite. What you've posted are other people's overinflated and unsubstantiated accusations. The accusation that he is rewriting history is also not supported by anything but conjecture.

Yes, but that is what we have to work with. They suggested an anti-Israeli and/or anti-Semitic bias in Carter's book and I have not offered my own opinion about that as I have not read the book and all I have to go on is the opinion of others. Even if I did read the book, I'm not sure I would be inclined to take the time to check each of the points made against the historical record. Presumably, those writing the reviews have done that.

He probably is a very decent man. But a rewrite of history born out of anti-Israeli or worse, anti-Semitism, is not a decent act.

The 'self defense' piece I just posted is the closest I've seen him come to even acknowledging anything Israel did right and even then he couldn't bring himself to commend Israel.

Foxfyre wrote:

FD writes

Quote:

And all third person accounts. To support the charge of anti-semitism, I require at the very least a quote from the accused or some documented action of the accused that demonstrates that he is an anti-semite. What you've posted are other people's overinflated and unsubstantiated accusations. The accusation that he is rewriting history is also not supported by anything but conjecture.

Yes, but that is what we have to work with. They suggested an anti-Israeli and/or anti-Semitic bias in Carter's book and I have not offered my own opinion about that as I have not read the book and all I have to go on is the opinion of others. Even if I did read the book, I'm not sure I would be inclined to take the time to check each of the points made against the historical record. Presumably, those writing the reviews have done that.

Yes, that is what we have to work with, and it's not enough to parrot the accusations further. When you say:

Foxfyre wrote:

He probably is a very decent man. But a rewrite of history born out of anti-Israeli or worse, anti-Semitism, is not a decent act.

... that implies that you hold the opinion or that it is an accepted fact. If you don't know if the accusations are true and don't intend to take the time to find out, then at least have the decency not to further the accusations.

The 'self defense' piece I just posted is the closest I've seen him come to even acknowledging anything Israel did right and even then he couldn't bring himself to commend Israel.

Carter may not have been a good president by any stretch, but he's a decent man with ethics and humanity. Can't say the same for those who call Carter an anti-semite.

I'd stand on the same side as Carter any day 24/7 against all of his antagonists.

Carter may not have been a good president by any stretch, but he's a decent man with ethics and humanity. Can't say the same for those who call Carter an anti-semite.

I'd stand on the same side as Carter any day 24/7 against all of his antagonists.

To Israel's supporters, everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-semite.

I've seen Jews called anti-semites to their face.. because they had the temerity to say that maybe Israel shouldn't steal land and kill kids, even if they do have problems themselves.

Cycloptichorn