Foxfyre wrote:Those that don't bomb crowded market places, that don't fire rockets into residential neighborhoods, that don't blow up busses filled with school children have all the due process and habeas corpus as anybody else in Israel.
First, due process is for all people -- it's how you determine whether or not someone did indeed bomb a crowded market place. Second, Palestinians who are not Israelis citizens do not have all the same due process or any other rights, especially not the right to their own property, as people who are citizens of Israel.
Quote:There are at least a million Arabs living peacefully as Israeli citizens in Israel with no restrictions on their freedoms whatsoever. So that isn't really the issue is it?
You're right, because we're not talking about people who are citizens of Israel, we're talking about Palestinians who live in the occupied territories.
Quote:I think the Israelis have more right to protect themselves against terrorists than the Palestinians have a right to be terrorists or condone terrorists.
What about the right to be treated as human beings, to their own land and water resources, to self-determination, to move freely from one PA controlled area to another? Should Palestinians have those rights? Obviously, we're not talking about the so-called right to be terrorists or condone terrorists, unless you meant to imply that all Palestinians are terrorists.
Quote:All that was ever necessary for a two-state solution was for the Palestinians to recognize Israel's right to exist, for the Palestinians to stop blowing up Israeli marketplaces, neighborhoods, busses, and for the Palestinians to agree to a two-state solution. They have had MANY opportunities to do all of this and so far have refused.
The PLO did recognize Israel's right to exist within the 1967 borders and there was peace between Oslo and the second intifada. That didn't stop Israelis from continuing to build and expand settlements on land that was supposed to be for a Palestinian state. These actions seriously undermined any confidence the Pals may have had that Israel was serious about a two state solution.
Quote:I repeat my former argument. If the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist and agree to stop terrorist activities and live as peaceful law abiding Israeli citizens OR accept a two-state solution while ceasing harrassment of Israel, they will be able to move wherever they wish.
Do you really think that Israel would accept the Palestinians as citizens?
Quote:Quote:Both the good Bishop and President Carter have acknowledged Israel's need for secure borders, which is why they think that expanding those borders at the expense of Palestinians is a bad idea and won't make them more secure.
Baloney. Carter and Tutu have both come down squarely pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel or certainly critical of Israel in a way they are not critical of the Palestinians. Both would impose on Israel policies that would make it far more difficult for Israel to protect its citizens and defend itself. I wouldn't trust either one of them to have Israel's best interests at heart and I think Israel is quite wise to understand that.
You're going to have to back up your "baloney". Carter explicitly acknowledges Israel's need for secure borders, and does so in the chapter that you yourself posted here in this thread.
Quote:The security of Israel must be guaranteed. The Arabs must acknowledge openly and specifically that Israel is a reality and has a right to exist in peace, behind secure and recognized borders, and with a firm Arab pledge to terminate any further acts of violence against the legally constituted nation of Israel.
And in the piece I posted a link to, Bishop Tutu says:
Quote:I believe Israel has a right to secure borders.
Now why don't you tell me which policies they would impose on Israel that would make it harder for Israel to defend herself?
