The World According To Jimmy Carter

Those Palestinians living and working in Israel are treated just like Israelis are treated. You again are ignoring the fact that all Palestinians aren't willing to do that.

The PLO never dropped its mandate to eliminate Israel and it rejected every single proposal for a two-state solution. And the attacks on Israel's civilian populations never stopped.

On December 14, 1998, with President Clinton in attendance, the Palestinian Legislative Council meeting in Gaza voted nearly unanimously to revoke portions of the Palestine National Charter calling for Israel's destruction. Following the vote, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the The Palestinian Authority (PA) had fulfilled its obligation under the peace accords.

I will concede that Israel was heavy handed in some of its settlement policies, but also the Palestinians should be willing to live with the Israelis as well as wanting to be treated like Israelis in Israel. It seems to me that the militant Palestinians are effecting apartheid far more than anything the Israelis can be accused of.

The are already accepting hundred of thousands of Palestinians as citizens. Any Palestinians who reject the authority of Hamas et al and accept the authority of Israel is in like flynn.

What Bishop Tuto and President Carter say on one hand belies their rhetoric on the other. Neither of them ever criticize Palestine or condemn the actions of the Palestinians while both frequently condemn Israel's actions. Saying that "Israel has a right to secure borders" is not the same thing as supporting policies that allow Israel to have secure borders and neither of them support anything that Israel does to secure its own borders.

McGentrix wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

McG wrote: No, it's that I know no agreement will be reached other then to simply disagree. I believe the Israelis want to live in peace without fear of suicide bombings and kidnappings and should do whatever they can to accomplish that. You seem to believe something else.


The Israelis must stop taking over Palestinian property, and move out from all the illegally occupied territories. They must provide the Palestinians with equal protections under the laws, and provide equal opportunities of employment and movement throughout Israel.

After this happens, there might be some semblance of "peace." I just wonder if you were a Palestinian living in Israel, if you would be content with your living conditions?

Why would they let killers roam free throughout Israel? You have presented an unrealistic idea of what would bring peace to the Israeli/Palestine problem.

You posit that Palestinians are inherently killers. This is a false and dangerous assumption.

Cycloptichorn

Foxfyre, I'm not going to argue with you on whether or not it is ok to declare an entire population to be criminals and by doing so declare them no longer deserving of human rights. I think the Pals are just as human as anyone else.

Foxfyre wrote:

Those Palestinians living and working in Israel are treated just like Israelis are treated. You again are ignoring the fact that all Palestinians aren't willing to do that.

All Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. How can I ignore that fact? I've asked, and I'll ask again, do you think that if they wanted to be Israeli citizens that they could be?

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The PLO never dropped its mandate to eliminate Israel and it rejected every single proposal for a two-state solution. And the attacks on Israel's civilian populations never stopped.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/revoke.html

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On December 14, 1998, with President Clinton in attendance, the Palestinian Legislative Council meeting in Gaza voted nearly unanimously to revoke portions of the Palestine National Charter calling for Israel's destruction. Following the vote, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the The Palestinian Authority (PA) had fulfilled its obligation under the peace accords.

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I will concede that Israel was heavy handed in some of its settlement policies, but also the Palestinians should be willing to live with the Israelis as well as wanting to be treated like Israelis in Israel. It seems to me that the militant Palestinians are effecting apartheid far more than anything the Israelis can be accused of.

Wherever the Israeli's live in the territories becomes protected by the Israeli military and creates defacto borders. It's not a matter of Palestinians being willing to live with Israelis, it's a matter of them being able to. The way in which the land has been taken makes a Palestinian state highly unlikely.

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The are already accepting hundred of thousands of Palestinians as citizens. Any Palestinians who reject the authority of Hamas et al and accept the authority of Israel is in like flynn.

Really? That's news to me. Perhaps you can point me to your research that shows this is true.

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What Bishop Tuto and President Carter say on one hand belies their rhetoric on the other. Neither of them ever criticize Palestine or condemn the actions of the Palestinians while both frequently condemn Israel's actions. Saying that "Israel has a right to secure borders" is not the same thing as supporting policies that allow Israel to have secure borders and neither of them support anything that Israel does to secure its own borders.

You can't back this up.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

McG wrote: No, it's that I know no agreement will be reached other then to simply disagree. I believe the Israelis want to live in peace without fear of suicide bombings and kidnappings and should do whatever they can to accomplish that. You seem to believe something else.


The Israelis must stop taking over Palestinian property, and move out from all the illegally occupied territories. They must provide the Palestinians with equal protections under the laws, and provide equal opportunities of employment and movement throughout Israel.

After this happens, there might be some semblance of "peace." I just wonder if you were a Palestinian living in Israel, if you would be content with your living conditions?

Why would they let killers roam free throughout Israel? You have presented an unrealistic idea of what would bring peace to the Israeli/Palestine problem.

You posit that Palestinians are inherently killers. This is a false and dangerous assumption.

Cycloptichorn

That's B.S. Cyc. I made no such suggestion.

C.I. said "They must provide the Palestinians with equal protections under the laws, and provide equal opportunities of employment and movement throughout Israel. "

That would mean ALL Palestinians. How do you weed out the ones carrying bombs from those not without checkpoints and searches? Enough Palestinians and Arabs that look like Palestinians carry out enough suicide bombings to warrant such devices to protect the citizens living in Israel.

It's too bad that you and C.I. can't face the reality that many Palestinians want only death for those in Israel and no amount of freedom, peace, or good feelings will change that. No amount of land given by Israel will change that. No amount of water will change that. No amount of food or money will change that. No number of jobs will change that.

Quote:

Quote:

What Bishop Tuto and President Carter say on one hand belies their rhetoric on the other. Neither of them ever criticize Palestine or condemn the actions of the Palestinians while both frequently condemn Israel's actions. Saying that "Israel has a right to secure borders" is not the same thing as supporting policies that allow Israel to have secure borders and neither of them support anything that Israel does to secure its own borders.

You can't back this up.

I can and have backed it up.

Freeduck, there is no point continuing this argument. You, like Bishop Tutu and President Carter, are solidly on the side of Palestinians and will neither acknowledge that Israel has a valid side in the dispute nor give them any credit for what they do that many, maybe most, people consider pretty darn okay.

You just keep repeating the same arguments and ignoring any points that would rebut your argument while inserting your own strawmen and red herrings into the mix. (Example: I did not say nor imply that all Palestinians were criminal.)

I accept that you think Israel sucks and the Palestinians are getting a raw deal and thus can be at least partially excused for doing or condoning acts of terrorism and/or electing a govenrment that does and condones terrorism. I accept that you think all that Israel does to defend itself is overreaction and/or inappropriate and/or disproportional while you have yet to suggest anything that Israel could do differently and still protect its citizens.

I do not and will not accept that Israel laying down its arms and/or embracing the militant Palestinians will effect any manner of peace and in fact will accomplish anything other than the distruction of Israel.

I do not and will not accept that solutions proposed by Bishop Tutu and/or Jimmy Carter will accomplish anything other than continued and increased misery for Israel.

And let's just leave it at that.