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The World According To Jimmy Carter

 
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 08:26 pm
Some people understand keeping friends close and enemies closer.

That's why.

And, ya never know when keeping them close might turn them into a friend.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 08:26 pm
dlowan wrote:
Snorkle.


Stealing maps when you can steal a whole country?


Carter just lacked ambition.

He gave ours to N.Korea, he didn't do too badly for himself, more for N.Korea though.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 08:44 pm
Quote:
Since George W. Bush became president, North Korea has restarted its nuclear reactor and increased its stock of weapons-grade plutonium, so it may now have enough for 10 or 11 weapons, compared with one or two when Bush took office.


Quote:
Meanwhile, the Bush administration, hampered by internal disputes, struggled to fashion a diplomatic effort to confront North Korea. Unlike the Clinton administration -- which suggested to North Korea that it would attack if Pyongyang moved to reprocess the plutonium -- the Bush administration never set out "red lines" that North Korea must not cross. Bush administration officials argued that doing so would only tempt North Korea to cross those lines.


washingtonpost.com


chronology of u.s. north korean nuclear and missle diplomacy
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 08:47 pm
dtom, Your post negates about 100 percent of what righties have been saying about Clinton's non-action against NK and their nuke program. Will we hear any rebuts?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 09:01 pm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/12/164726.shtml

AND

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5368

Want more?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 09:32 pm
An example from FrontPageMag.

Andrew Walden, FrontPage Magazine, June 1, 2006


Iraqi civilian death statistics compiled by Rep. Steve King, R-IA, indicate that, contrary to the impression made on the evening news, Iraq actually has a lower civilian violent death rate than Washington, D.C., and pre-Katrina New Orleans. Iraq is also substantially safer than several foreign countries. After seeing media coverage of Iraqi violence King said: "I began to ask myself the question, if you were a civilian in Iraq, how could you tolerate that level of violence. What really is the level of violence?"

King calculates an annualized Iraqi civilian death rate of 27.5 per 100,000 based on U.S. military and independent statistical sources.


What some people will use as sources to back up their claims is laughable.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 09:47 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
An example from FrontPageMag.

Andrew Walden, FrontPage Magazine, June 1, 2006


Iraqi civilian death statistics compiled by Rep. Steve King, R-IA, indicate that, contrary to the impression made on the evening news, Iraq actually has a lower civilian violent death rate than Washington, D.C., and pre-Katrina New Orleans. Iraq is also substantially safer than several foreign countries. After seeing media coverage of Iraqi violence King said: "I began to ask myself the question, if you were a civilian in Iraq, how could you tolerate that level of violence. What really is the level of violence?"

King calculates an annualized Iraqi civilian death rate of 27.5 per 100,000 based on U.S. military and independent statistical sources.


What some people will use as sources to back up their claims is laughable.


Can you dispute it? Can you dispute what they said about carter in either publication? Until you have something concrete to present other than what you think, I'll just take your grousing for, well, just grousing.
BTW-Al Jazeera did a nice piece on carter, maybe that's where you should get your news from....or do you already?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 10:03 pm
Since DC is the city that was mentioned

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/dccrime.htm

population of Dc 550,521
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 10:09 pm
LSM - We've already had a whole big long thread pointing out the flaws in the DC comparison. I don't think we need to go there again.

Neither of your sources are considered reliable or accurate references for factual information.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 10:13 pm
Question to LSM:

Would you:

a) rather move to Baghdad
b) rather move to Washington D.C.

and why?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:54 pm
squinney wrote:
LSM - We've already had a whole big long thread pointing out the flaws in the DC comparison. I don't think we need to go there again.

Neither of your sources are considered reliable or accurate references for factual information.

According to who?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:55 pm
old europe wrote:
Question to LSM:

Would you:

a) rather move to Baghdad
b) rather move to Washington D.C.

and why?

That is an inane question.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 12:16 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
msolga wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
I don't have to remind you, Dys, but perhaps LSM doesn't understand why, all of a sudden, the right is all exercised about Jimmy Carter. It's because he thinks you can negotiate your way to peace in the Middle East. He thinks the USA should actually talk to Hamas, you know, the democratically elected governing party of the Palestinian government in Gaza? The right wing Republicans running things in Washington, the ones who think we can just plunk democracy down anywhere and it will flourish, refuse to talk to Hamas. Why not? Aren't they the ELECTED representatives of Gaza? Well, yes, but the wingnuts won't talk to anybody they don't like. In other words, screw democracy.

Meanwhile, back to Jimmy, the right is trying to find something, anything, to throw a little muck onto him so that they can continue to ignore him and his reality based view of the world.

Joe(and he's a pretty good Christian for being a Democrat)Nation


Thank you for explaining that, Joe. As an outsider (not of the US) I was wondering why Jimmy Carter was suddenly the subject of so much flack here. He wants to negotiate peace in the Middle East? He thinks the US should talk to Hamas? What enlightened thinking! Sounds very sensible & realistic to me, even if he is a shameless map stealer! :wink:

He wants to negotiate peace? Like he did in N.Korea,(Billzeebubba sent him) gave 'em the farm & then skulked out. Look what jimmahs peace negotiating did for N.Korea.
Why should we talk with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, or Syria? That would only legitimize their positions.


Why shouldn't the US negotiate with Hamas?
Heaven's above, they're an elected government! People elected them to govern & speak for them. And maybe, just maybe, they are part of the solution?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 12:36 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
msolga wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Silly or not, in your opinion makes no difference, if jimmah stole anothers copyrighted work, he's a weasel & will be found out.
Ain't it just awful when your hero gets caught for the pettiness that is him.


I generally don't choose politicians as my "heroes", LSM, but I do have some regard for Jimmy Carter. I'm sure The Stolen Maps Incident will sort itself out to everyone's satisfaction. Sorry, but I just don't see it as the huge deal that you do. I can think of many far more weasely acts by politicians than that!

What do you find endearing about jimmah? What did he do as president? He has overseen some homes built, or he lent his name to the projects, but that's about all he ahs done except muck stuff up.


You really want to know? Well, speaking as someone who lives somewhere other than the US, he has always seemed to me to have integrity as a politician (Great Map Theft Incident aside!) You know, for us folks who live in otherparts of the planet, it was somehow comforting to have a US president who took the rest of the world seriously. He seemed genuine. We sort of liked that! Looking at the record of the present government, it's rather of a case of you don't know what you've got till it's gone.

I've never heard him called "jimmah" before, either. Where does that come from? Sounds rather offensive to me, but what would I know?
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 04:05 am
Re: The World According To Jimmy Carter
LoneStarMadam wrote:
....now Dennis Ross, former Bush I & Clinton administrations Middle East Envoy, has now accused Carter of taking maps from his book that he (Ross) had done himself with no accreditation.....


Ross got his book deal because he used to be an envoy.

As an envoy, he worked for the US government, and any maps he drew to describe the negotiations over territory would belong to the US government, correct?

We can safely assume that whatever maps Ross published in his book were similar to maps used to formulate policy when he worked for the US government.

So, how do we know that Carter got the maps from Ross' book? As a former president, he surely has contacts in the state department who would be privy to the maps demarcating lands in dispute when Ross worked as an envoy.

How do we know these maps were not government property, and Ross just made similar maps in his book? And the property need not have been classified either, at least not at the time Carter published his book.

Burden of proof? Ross, not Carter.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 07:27 am
I think using Ross's maps without permission is tacky, but not all that big a deal.

But here are some more commentaries on Carter's scholarship and analysis:

Carter Center fellow resigns, criticizes Carter's new book
DANIEL YEE
Associated Press
ATLANTA - A Carter Center fellow and longtime adviser to former President Jimmy Carter has resigned after sharply criticizing Carter's new book on Palestine, and a Jewish human rights group said it obtained thousands of signatures from supporters also protesting the book.
Kenneth Stein, director of the Institute for the Study of Modern Israel at Emory University, resigned as a Carter Center fellow for Middle East Affairs after reading Carter's 21st book, titled "Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid," which was released last week.

Deanna Congileo, Carter's spokeswoman, confirmed Stein's resignation on Wednesday. She said Stein was The Carter Center's first executive director in the early 1980s and founded the center's Middle East program.
"President Carter stands by the accuracy of his book," Congileo said. Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, in large part for his efforts to bring peace to the Middle East.

Also Wednesday, the Simon Wiesenthal Center has received 6,000 signatures on an online petition rebuking Carter for his book, said spokesman Marcial Lavina.

"President Carter there is no Israeli Apartheid policy and you know it. I join with the Simon Wiesenthal Center in respectfully reminding you that the only reason there is no peace in the Holy Land is because of Palestinian terrorism and fanaticism," according to the petition at the Los Angeles-based center's Web site.
MORE HERE


"Being a former president does not give one a unique privilege to invent information or to unpack it with cuts, deftly slanted to provide a particular outlook,"" Stein said. "Having little access to Arabic and Hebrew sources, I believe, clearly handicapped his understanding and analyses of how history has unfolded over the last decade."
http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=24552

(Emphasis mine in the piece following)
The World According to Jimmy Carter
by Alan Dershowitz

I like Jimmy Carter. I have known him since he began his run for president in early 1976. I worked hard for his election, and I have admired the work of the Carter Center throughout the world. That's why it troubles me so much that this decent man has written such an indecent book about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
His bias against Israel shows by his selection of the book's title: "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid." The suggestion that without peace Israel is an apartheid state analogous to South Africa is simply wrong. The basic evil of South African apartheid, against which I and so many other Jews fought, was the absolute control over a majority of blacks by a small minority of whites. It was the opposite of democracy. In Israel majority rules; it is a vibrant secular democracy, which just today recognized gay marriages performed abroad. Arabs serve in the Knesset, on the Supreme Court and get to vote for their representatives, many of whom strongly oppose Israeli policies. Israel has repeatedly offered to end its occupation of areas it captured in a defensive war in exchange for peace and full recognition. The reality is that other Arab and Muslim nations do in fact practice apartheid. In Jordan, no Jew can be a citizen or own land. The same is true in Saudi Arabia, which has separate roads for Muslims and non-Muslims. Even in the Palestinian authority, the increasing influence of Hamas threatens to create Islamic hegemony over non-Muslims. Arab Christians are leaving in droves.

Why then would Jimmy Carter invoke the concept of apartheid in his attack on Israel? Even he acknowledges--though he buries this toward the end of his book--that what is going on in Israel today "is unlike that in South Africa--not racism, but the acquisition of land." But Israel's motive for holding on to this land is the prevention of terrorism. It has repeatedly offered to exchange land for peace and did so in Gaza and southern Lebanon only to have the returned land used for terrorism, kidnappings and rocket launchings.

I don't know why Jimmy Carter, who is generally a careful man, allowed so many errors and omissions to blemish his book. Here are simply a few of the most egregious.

•• Carter emphasizes that "Christian and Muslim Arabs had continued to live in this same land since Roman times," but he ignores the fact that Jews have lived in Hebron, Tzfat, Jerusalem, and other cities for even longer. Nor does he discuss the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Jews from Arab countries since 1948.

•• Carter repeatedly claims that the Palestinians have long supported a two-state solution and the Israelis have always opposed it. Yet he makes no mention of the fact that in 1938 the Peel Commission proposed a two-state solution with Israel receiving a mere sliver of its ancient homeland and the Palestinians receiving the bulk of the land. The Jews accepted and the Palestinians rejected this proposal, because Arab leaders cared more about there being no Jewish state on Muslim holy land than about having a Palestinian state of their own.

•• He barely mentions Israel's acceptance, and the Palestinian rejection, of the U.N.'s division of the mandate in 1948.

•• He claims that in 1967 Israel launched a preemptive attack against Jordan. The fact is that Jordan attacked Israel first, Israel tried desperately to persuade Jordan to remain out of the war, and Israel counterattacked after the Jordanian army surrounded Jerusalem, firing missiles into the center of the city. Only then did Israel capture the West Bank, which it was willing to return in exchange for peace and recognition from Jordan.

•• Carter repeatedly mentions Security Council Resolution 242, which called for return of captured territories in exchange for peace, recognition and secure boundaries, but he ignores the fact that Israel accepted and all the Arab nations and the Palestinians rejected this resolution. The Arabs met in Khartum and issued their three famous "no's": "No peace, no recognition, no negotiation" but you wouldn't know that from reading the history according to Carter.

•• Carter faults Israel for its "air strike that destroyed an Iraqi nuclear reactor" without mentioning that Iraq had threatened to attack Israel with nuclear weapons if they succeeded in building a bomb.

•• Carter faults Israel for its administration of Christian and Muslim religious sites, when in fact Israel is scrupulous about ensuring every religion the right to worship as they please--consistant, of course, with security needs. He fails to mention that between 1948 and 1967, when Jordan occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the Hashemites destroyed and desecrated Jewish religious sites and prevented Jews from praying at the Western Wall. He also never mentions Egypt's brutal occupation of Gaza between 1949 and 1967.

•• Carter blames Israel, and exonerates Arafat, for the Palestinian refusal to accept statehood on 95% of the West Bank and all of Gaza pursuant to the Clinton-Barak offers of Camp David and Taba in 2000-2001. He accepts the Palestinian revisionist history, rejects the eye-witness accounts of President Clinton and Dennis Ross and ignores Saudi Prince Bandar's accusation that Arafat's rejection of the proposal was "a crime" and that Arafat's account "was not truthful"--except, apparently, to Carter. The fact that Carter chooses to believe Yasir Arafat over Bill Clinton speaks volumes.

•• Carter's description of the recent Lebanon war is misleading. He begins by asserting that Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers. "Captured" suggest a military apprehension subject to the usual prisoner of war status. The soldiers were kidnapped, and have not been heard from--not even a sign of life. The rocket attacks that preceded Israel's invasion are largely ignored, as is the fact that Hezbollah fired its rockets from civilian population centers.

•• Carter gives virtually no credit to Israel's superb legal system, falsely asserting (without any citation) that "confessions extracted through torture are admissible in Israeli courts," that prisoners are "executed" and that the "accusers" act "as judges." Even Israel's most severe critics acknowledge the fairness of the Israeli Supreme Court, but not Carter.

•• Carter even blames Israel for the "exodus of Christians from the Holy Land," totally ignoring the Islamization of the area by Hamas and the comparable exodus of Christian Arabs from Lebanon as a result of the increasing influence of Hezbollah and the repeated assassination of Christian leaders by Syria.

•• Carter also blames every American administration but his own for the Mideast stalemate with particular emphasis on "a submissive White House and U.S. Congress in recent years." He employs hyperbole and overstatement when he says that "dialogue on controversial issues is a privilege to be extended only as a reward for subservient behavior and withheld from those who reject U.S. demands." He confuses terrorist states, such as Iran and Syria to which we do not extend dialogue, with states with whom we strongly disagree, such as France and China, with whom we have constant dialogue.

I hope President Carter will seriously consider addressing these omissions and mistakes. He begins his book tour soon and he will have an opportunity to correct the record.
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 08:52 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
squinney wrote:
LSM - We've already had a whole big long thread pointing out the flaws in the DC comparison. I don't think we need to go there again.

Neither of your sources are considered reliable or accurate references for factual information.

According to who?


According to people that understand language and factual reporting.

Sample from Newsmax:

Quote:
Jimmy Carter's Trail of Disaster
Christopher Ruddy
Monday, May 13, 2002
Jimmy Carter is off this week to save Cuba.

With Carter on the loose, the American public needs to watch out.

It seems that almost wherever he goes and whatever positions he pushes, Jimmy Carter leaves a wake of devastation and disaster.

Carter, we should note, has been cozying up to North Korea for years. He helped the U.S. and the communist country come to agreement during the Clinton years to defuse a tense situation over North Korea's nuclear weapons program.

Under the wacko deal Carter arranged, the U.S. would stop complaining about Korea's nuclear weapons program as long as the U.S. gave aid to North Korea and helped the communists build more modern nuclear reactors.

The U.S. was well on the path to doing this when the new Bush administration sounded the alarm and immediately stopped the cockamamy plan dead in its tracks.



Real reporters and journalists do not name call and inject their story with with personal opinions. When it's the truth, all a real journalist needs is the facts. Think about that for a minute.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 09:04 am
Here's another clue:

NewsMax catagories:

Quote:
Home | Money | Jokes | Links | Advertise | Search | Cartoons | Classifieds | Contact | Shop


NYT Catagories:

Quote:
World U.S. Politics Washington Education N.Y./Region Business Technology Sports Science Health Opinion


Washington Post catagories:

Quote:
Politics Business Education Real Estate
Nation Technology KidsPost Obituaries
World Entertainment Religion Corrections
Metro Health Post Magazine Archives


See the difference? Legitimate news sources have News.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 09:07 am
In an opinion piece, however, which the Christopher Ruddy piece is, you sort of expect the writer to insert opinion. Otherwise it wouldn't be called an opinion piece. The better opinion pieces, however cite and express conclusions built from facts which the Christopher Ruddy piece also did. So far better to critique what he said as well as the manner in which he said it.

I agree there is no room for personal opinion, other than in pertinent quotes, in a news story. You don't find many straight, objective news stories these days, however, as few reporters or headline writers know how to write one that does not include the writer's personal slant and/or blatant editorializing.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Dec, 2006 09:56 am
Foxfyre wrote:
In an opinion piece, however, which the Christopher Ruddy piece is, you sort of expect the writer to insert opinion. Otherwise it wouldn't be called an opinion piece. The better opinion pieces, however cite and express conclusions built from facts which the Christopher Ruddy piece also did. So far better to critique what he said as well as the manner in which he said it.


Where does it say it's an opinion piece? The top of the page says Breaking News. The bottom of the page says: Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics: Middle East Saddam Hussein/Iraq.

There's no opinion section of the site that is marked as such, just News / Mpney / Jokes.

Was this in the Jokes section?
0 Replies
 
 

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