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Carter blames Israel for Mideast conflict

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 01:39 pm
One doesn't need to see any "document" or ""policy" that mistreats Palestinians in Israel. The "evidence" and numbers speak for themselves.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 02:05 pm
The other solution is the following. All the Palestinians have to do is complete the deal in good faith and be good neighbors and things should get better for them rapidly. So many times they have been on the verge of a two-state solution, however, and it has always been the militant Palestinian government that has sabotaged the effort.

Let's hope this time that won't happen.

Time has come for Mideast peace : Abbas

Jan 25 1:39 PM US/Eastern

Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas and Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni shared hopes for a revived Middle East peace process, with Abbas calling for talks to begin straight away.

"The time has come for us .. to make peace a reality," Abbas told an audience at the annual meeting of business and political leaders in Davos.

"We are ready, as of now, to start serious negotiations with our Israeli neighbours," he said during a discussion in which he and Livni shared a stage with Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres.

"The map (to peace ) is there, we have all agreed to it. I am convinced we can reach a quick solution," Abbas added.

The United States is due to host a meeting on February 2 of the diplomatic Quartet, whose 2003 "roadmap" for achieving Palestinian statehood and peace with Israel has languished since its inception.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said during a week-long trip to the Middle East and Europe earlier this month that she planned to "accelerate" implementation of the roadmap put forward by the United States, European Union, United Nations and Russia.


Abbas is expected to meet Rice and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert next month.

Speaking after the Palestinian president, Livni was more circumspect about the timetable for a possible resumption of the road map, even as she stressed the need for both sides to stick to the vision of two states living side by side.

"The Palestinian state is not an illusion, its feasible, it's there, it's achievable," Livni said. "The establishment of a Palestinian state and homeland for the Palestinians is the answer, the national answer to the Palestinians wherever they are."

At the same time, Livni stressed that Israel would never "allow" a Palestinian state that was "ruled by a terrorist organisation."

Abbas and his secular Fatah party are locked in a power struggle with the radical Islamic movement Hamas, which controls the Palestinian government and has refused to recognize Israel.
AP SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 02:21 pm
Seems, things get in motion (though not re access to A2K :wink: ):

Quote:
Kadima Proposes Handing Judea and Samaria to Europe

21:16 Jan 25, '07 / 6 Shevat 5767
by Aaron Klein, World Net Daily


A member of PM Ehud Olmert's Kadima party proposed transferring control of Judea and Samaria to a European task force until the establishment of a Palestinian state.


Following the establishment of the state, the strategic territory would be handed to security forces associated with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

The proposal comes after WND broke the story earlier this week according to top European and Egyptian diplomatic sources Israel has been conducting behind-the-scene negotiations to hand over most of Judea and Samaria to Abbas' security forces. The sources said the transfer of security control to Abbas would be coordinated by the European Union and Jordan.

Judea and Samaria encompass Jerusalem and are within rocket-firing range of Tel Aviv and Israel's international airport.

At Israel's prestigious Herzliya Conference, Knesset Member Shlomo Breznitz, reportedly a close confidante of Olmert, said the Judea and Samaria should be temporarily transferred to the Europeans and that most of the territory's Jewish communities should be evacuated.

"The only way to get out of the impasse is to transfer the territories, for a limited time, to an international mandate, that will run them until the establishment of a Palestinian state," said Breznitz at the conference.

The Herzliya Conference is attended by Israel's top leadership and regularly maps out the country's agenda for the coming year. In 2004, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced his plan to withdraw from Gaza at the conference.

Breznitz told Israel's Maariv daily newspaper the territories should be transferred to the European community and not the United States because, he said, after the invasion of Iraq America "lost its status as an honest broker in the view of the Palestinians and the Arab states."
... ... ...

source: Aarutz Sheva - IsraelNationalNews.com
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 02:30 pm
Walter, Great article! The evacuation of Jews from the territories, and transfer to the UN makes a whole lot of sense; the US cannot be trusted to be a fair broker. Let's hope this will progress beyond words to action.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 02:50 pm
Abbas would certainly buy into this, and the majority of Pals would approve. However, the Islamist fanatics (e.g., Hamas) would oppose anything out of hand that might lead to a settlement short of the destruction of Israel.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 03:14 pm
The question then is, why let them have a say in the outcome?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 03:27 pm
Foxfyre wrote:

The Palestinians should reject and disavow themselves of any support for Palestinian government or policy committed to the extermination of Israel.

The Palestinians should publicly and without equivocation denounce terrorist activities of all kinds and should not support or protect terrorists in any way.

The Palestinians should pledge allegiance to Israeli law and their commitment to be law abiding and peaceful citizens of Israel and do whatever they can to put that into practice.


If Israel were willing to accept the Palestinians as citizens then 1) we would have no refugee problem (right of return) and 2) we wouldn't be having this discussion at all about the West Bank. This is what Israeli's refer to as their "demographic problem". If they accepted the Palestinians and became one state then they would have to lose either the Jewish nature of the state or the democratic nature of it. It's just not possible to keep both. This is the source of the problem. This is the reason why Israeli leaders have opted for the bantustan model. If you don't believe that this is true then I have a lot of articles to link your way.

Quote:
If they do that, I think you would see Israel's attitude and behavior toward the Palestinians change dramatically--perhaps not overnight, but within a reasonable time as the Palestinians proved to be trustworthy, and then if the excessive discriminatory practices continued, I will join you in condemning Israel.

Until then, I think Israel is justified in doing whatever it must to protect and defend itself.


So, if every single Palestinian bows down to their Israeli overlords, then they will get... a more positive attitude? How do they get their land back? Their rights? Their economy? Their state? Some water? Freedom of movement? Contiguous borders? Compensation for their refugees? And why is it acceptable for Israel to withold all of these things as collective punishment for terrorism?

No matter what the Palestinians do, there will always be those in Israel who believe that their land was given to the Jews by God and that they have no right to it and who will not stop trying to take it out from under them. Sadly, these people actually have quite a lot of power in Israel.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 04:38 pm
Israel is an independent, recognized nation that can run the country as it pleases. It has no obligation to admit Pals from outside the country.

Jordan is essentially a Pal country, to which those Pals can retreat. Hussein, of course, wants nothing to do with them.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 06:45 pm
Advocate wrote:
Israel is an independent, recognized nation that can run the country as it pleases. It has no obligation to admit Pals from outside the country.

Jordan is essentially a Pal country, to which those Pals can retreat. Hussein, of course, wants nothing to do with them.


Sure, but Jordan is an independent, recognized nation that can run the country as it pleases. It has no obligation to admit Palestinians from outside the country.

Israel was essentially the homeland to the Palestinians, to which those Palestinians should be allowed to return. Israel, of course, wants nothing to do with them.
0 Replies
 
The Pen is
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 06:36 am
A little ray of sunshine: www.nswas.com
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 10:34 am
It seems that the Israel haters here constantly bring up alleged water disputes between Israel and Palestine.

Many, many, countries, including the USA, have water disputes with neighboring countries. But they don't resort to hitting their neighbors with Katusha rockets because of the disputes. They sit down with their neighbors as equal negotiating partners and work out settlements. Unfortunately, the Pals refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist, foreclosing the possibility of settlements.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 11:48 am
Advocate wrote: Unfortunately, the Pals refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist, foreclosing the possibility of settlements.

You need to learn the truth about how the "Pals" are being treated in Israel before you make such foolish statements about "Israel's right to exist." Water is a necessary liquid of life; anything between the US and its neighbors doesn't come close to turning off the tap for anybody. Please do a search on this topic to seek the truth about Israel.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 11:49 am
They are not equals and therefore cannot negotiate as equals. Israel is occupying the West Bank and therefore controls its resources, including water. It allots plenty of water to the settlers, not enough to Palestinians. That's a fact.

And nations have and will continue to go to war over natural resources.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 11:51 am
The Pen is wrote:
A little ray of sunshine: www.nswas.com


Thank you.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 12:03 pm
Israel controls 80 % of Palestinian water and regional control has methodically grown for years
(Nablus) Amin Abu Wardeh
Sunday, 07 January 2007
Palestinian researcher Abu Kishek said that the Arab water security is threatened due to Israeli policy and that any political solution to the Palestinian issue will not happen except through the water.

The researcher said that Arab water security is facing a number of challenges, and has been for a long time. However little attention has been paid to Israel's steady take-over of water resources. "The solution to the entire situation lies in the subject of water." He pointed out that Israel began its quest to control Palestinian water when the state was established in 1948. Water has assumed top priority for Israel since it nationalized its water project in 1949.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 12:56 pm
Copied/pasted since not online for non-subscribers:
Quote:
Sir Ronald's plan for peace
The prominent venture capitalist and backer of Gordon Brown urges economic support the Palestinians as a route to stability


FROM JEFF BARAK, JERUSALEM

PROMINENT GORDON Brown supporter Sir Ronald Cohen has no intention of following in the footsteps of Lord Levy, Prime Minister Tony Blair's envoy to the Middle East and a major Labour Party fundraiser.

"I'm not interested in having an official position," Sir Ronald told the JC on Sunday. "I'm not trying to be an envoy."

Sir Ronald, the former chairman of Apax, one of the world's leading private equity investment groups, was in Jerusalem to deliver a lecture on the role of economic initiatives in peacemaking. Describing himself as "a social entrepreneur", Sir Ronald said that he did not "view myself as trying to take on the same type of challenge as Michael Levy did.

"I'm trying to use my business knowledge and access to capital markets in order to help resolve the IsraeliPalestinian conflict… Business must make its voice heard. When politics gets stuck, business can help get politicians back together," he said.

In his lecture to the Israel Council on Foreign Relations, Sir Ronald said that it was clear that politics alone would not bring Israeli-Palestinian peace, and that economic drivers were needed to push the two sides forward.

"The importance of economics in conflict resolution is that it sets aside the question of motive, grievance, of historical rights and wrongs, and focuses instead on the question of the economic opportunity… The business community has the power to influence the process and can remove some of the most serious economic grievances."

Israel and the Palestinians could learn from the experience of Northern Ireland where, he said, private-sector economic measures, particularly in reducing Catholic unemployment, were a major factor behind mitigating political violence and advancing the cause of peace.

Sir Ronald, the chairman of the Portland Trust, said that Israel needed to have twin objectives: it had to ensure the security of its citizens while at the same time allow the Palestinian economy to develop by providing freedom of movement for Palestinian workers and products.

The aim, he said, should be for the Palestinian economy to grow by an annual 10 per cent for 10 years.

"Prime Minister Olmert buys the economic argument," Sir Ronald said. "The Prime Minister is open to this approach and I've had a number of conversations with him. The question is how you deal with the security issue" in terms of reducing the number of checkpoints in the West Bank.

In 2003, the Portland Trust conducted a study of the Palestinian economy at the request of the UK government. "The Palestinians could surprise us all in terms of their economic ability," Sir Ronald said, noting that Palestinian society had a very high literacy rate and that two-thirds of the population were employed in the private sector.

"Business people," he continued, "want to put the conflict behind them. Nothing will come from a painful stalemate… Private-sector employees do not have job security, unlike government workers.

"It therefore makes sense to develop the Palestinian private sector so as to make people less likely to want terror."

Noting that Palestinian banks lent only 20 per cent of their funds to the private sector due to the risks involved, the Portland Trust has worked with EU and American institutions to provide more than £100 million of loan guarantees to Palestinian banks so that they will extend their credit to small and medium-sized businesses in the Palestinian territories. The Portland Trust is also developing a microfinance sector for loans under £3,000 for very small businesses.

In introducing Sir Ronald's lecture, Israel's Vice Premier Shimon Peres noted that "in the Middle East, there was too much diplomacy and strategy and not enough economy". He pointed out that China changed "not because it had been invaded by an army but because it decided on the free market.

"We have to move on a double-track policy, one political with the Palestinians, which I'm not sure how far it will go," said Mr Peres, "and a social, economic track, independent of the political one."
´
source: Jewish Chronicle, 26.01.07, page 3
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 12:57 pm
From the same source as above source as above

http://i16.tinypic.com/2m2b0gm.jpg

Quote:
SIR RONALD COHEN IN BRIEF
Ronald Cohen was born in Cairo in 1945. His family fled Egypt for Britain after the 1956 Suez crisis. His third wife, the film producer Sharon Harel-Cohen, is Israeli, and they have two children, Tamara and Jonathan. The 2005 Sunday Times Rich List put his fortune at £70 million. He was a founding partner and former chairman of Apax Partners, one of the world's leading private-equity investment groups. A Liberal Party candidate in the 1970s, Sir Ronald switched his support to Labour in the 1990s and became a major backer of the party and a close supporter of Gordon Brown. Knighted in 2001, Sir Ronald is the chairman of the Social Investment Task Force and the Commission on Unclaimed Assets. He is a trustee of the British Museum and vice chairman of Ben Gurion University of the Negev. Sir Ronald is also the founder and chairman of the Portland Trust, a private not-for-profit British foundation promoting peace and stability between Palestinians and Israelis through economic development. He is a graduate and honorary fellow of Exeter College, Oxford, and a Harvard Business School MBA.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 12:58 pm
Before the '67 war, the Pals owned and controlled the West Bank and Gaza, and all the water resources therein. As we know, this didn't satisfy the Pals, or dissuade them from trying to destroy Israel.

Thus, it is a mockery to say that water is what prevents a settlement, and a recognition of the right of Israel to exist.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 02:05 pm
Advocate wrote:
Before the '67 war, the Pals owned and controlled the West Bank and Gaza, and all the water resources therein.


No, that was Jordan.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 02:07 pm
Advocate wrote:
Before the '67 war, the Pals owned and controlled the West Bank and Gaza, and all the water resources therein. As we know, this didn't satisfy the Pals, or dissuade them from trying to destroy Israel.

Thus, it is a mockery to say that water is what prevents a settlement, and a recognition of the right of Israel to exist.


This doesn't make sense logically. Your facts are non-corollary.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/jan/26/israels

Rosenberg makes a great point today at TPM:

Quote:

Shmuel Rosner, the estimable Ha'aretz correspondent, noted that it is telling that every significant critic of Carter's book is Jewish, concluding that Jews are increasingly isolated on matters relating to Israel.


Later:

Quote:


Those who believe they are helping Israel by shouting down any and all opposition to counterproductive Israeli policies are not helping Israel at all. They are simply building resentment within the body politic of the one nation in the world which Israel needs to survive.

Overreacting to criticism is good for organizational fundraising and for getting on Fox News. But that is all its good for. It's not good for the Jews. And it's certainly not good for Israel or America.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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