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Age difference in relationship

 
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 12:29 am
Quote:
Since sexual pleasure in females is mostly caused by the fitness of the genetic material with which she mates, girls are especially pleased by moral goodness in males, the phenomenon I call nymphetal philokalia.


I get a lot of sexual pleasure from my treasure trove of plastic and rubber sex toys. Does this mean that the rubber tree plant they derived from was an especially high quality species prone to greater longevity because of the fitness of its seeds?
0 Replies
 
safecracker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 02:33 am
ossobuco cure her fear of nerds tell her theres ppl like me a nerd who taught sniper school and can benchpress 370lbs lol

It is my understanding that if you put your partners disire b4 yours it alway s works out great. myself I think it feels better when I know ive made my wife climax a few times while me are making love as well...and yes guys dont be fooled a woman can climax many times in 1 session of lovemaking.
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 02:44 am
Men too. Long ones or short, multiple orgasms or separate ones across a few hours.

Re: Age difference? Age is in the mind, so when you're ready you're ready. Be sure to inform yourself, think it through, and live consciously however you decide to be.
0 Replies
 
safecracker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 02:51 am
totally agree Borg
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 06:20 am
LOL ... ya know, stet, you just about had me goin' for a minute there, 'till I caught the "Philokalia" reference. That's a work with which I happen to be familiar, and from which I quote:
Quote:
St. John of Damaskos in On the Virtues and the Vices:
For desire is drawn towards three things: the pleasure of the flesh, vain self-glory, and the acquisition of material wealth. As a result of this senseless appetite it scorns God and His commandments, and forgets His generosity; it turns like a savage beast against its neighbour; it plunges the intelligence into darkness and prevents it from looking towards the truth. He who has acquired a spiritual understanding of this truth will share, even here on earth, in the kingdom of heaven and will live a blessed life in expectation of the blessedness that awaits those who love God.
The Philokalia Vol. 2, p. 339



The Philokalia, The Complete Text
St. Nikodimos of the Holy Mountain and St. Makarios of Corinth

Trans. G.E.H. Palmer; Philip Sherrard; and Kallistos Ware
London: Faber and Faber Limited, Vol. 1 1979, Vol. 2 1981
ISBN (Vol. 1) 0571130135
ISBN (Vol. 2) 0571154662

I don't think I've ever encountered an 18th Century work of Greek Orthodox Hesychasm employed in humor before. Very original.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 08:52 am
montana

Just found this thread now. Brave of you to toss your experience into the forum for discussion.

It's a tough question. Human variation is great, in maturity and in intention, and no rule will be appropriate in all cases. It is simply a necessary consequence of living in a complicated society that rules (really often quite arbitrary, often based on local cultural silliness - eg laws regarding sodomy or oral-genital contact) need to be established and policed. One hopes that some wisdom and balance and a sophistication of nuance will appear in the relationship with the 'perpetrator' and the judge, though that is sometimes a romantic hope too.
0 Replies
 
step314
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 11:37 am
orgasm, lust, holiness
Quote:
It is my understanding that if you put your partners disire b4 yours it alway s works out great. myself I think it feels better when I know ive made my wife climax a few times while me are making love as well...and yes guys dont be fooled a woman can climax many times in 1 session of lovemaking.




The main significance of orgasm is I believe that it mixes up sperm, making which spermatozoan succeeds in fertilization more random. It is my opinion that, contrary to what the ultra-competitive he-men types try to make people think, usually females are more pleased by being fertilized by weak sperm. That is because competition will occur in the ejaculates of her male descendants between sperm more related to her and sperm more related to her mate. So, yes, usually females are pleased by having an orgasm. However, to the extent that a young female's sexual desire is real and caused by her object of affection being moral, she is going to want sperm selection to occur, sperm selection being IMO the whole significance of nymphetal philokalia. It would be a dreadful mistake, therefore, to suppose that girls and women have similar needs and desires so far as sperm randomization and orgasm are concerned. And of course, it is well known that the E- type prostaglandins (the most likely culprits in sodomy addiction) cause uterine contractions, which is why they are used as abortifacients and why Motrin (which blocks prostaglandins) is effective in preventing menstrual cramps. Another time that a female might not want orgasm is when she is sharing her mate with another female; the significance of bisexuality is probably that sperm go back-and-forth between the two females, thus selecting for sperm able to survive such going back-and-forth, which of course are likely to be sperm which contain much genetic material that has been similarly loved by females in the past, presumably on account of it having been very desirable to females.

Female lust is a complicated phenomenon, which IMO is related to female lust mucous. This lust mucous gets absorbed by the male during sex, having several effects on spermatogenesis. One effect I believe it has is to reduce the importance in spermatogenesis of cytoplasm bridges (synctia), thereby enabling sperm formation to be more controlled by the haploid genome of the sperm (as opposed to the diploid genome of the man producing the sperm) than it otherwise would; this presumably greatly enhances meaningful sperm competition. Also, I believe that the lust epigenetically in some sense paints the sperm chromosomes so that after many generations the genetic material which has been loved by especially desirous lustful females is distinguishable from the other genetic material, enabling phenomena such as genetic inversions to occur as is best for the evolution of moral traits (e.g., by encouraging the proximity of important talent genes to important moral character genes). Genetic material is akin to a Chinese painting, which if well loved over the generations usually possesses many seals of its past owners expressing their love for it. Third, I believe that female lust immediately encourages genetic crossover in the males' developing sperm, which (as I shall discuss later) ordinarily is unusually in the male's interest. Fourth, female lust may increase fertility, but only after a while (after the sperm affected have had a chance to develop). The exact effects of female lust on spermatogenesis are presumably too complex to be completely understood at present, but at any rate, I feel confident that female lust mucous does have effects analogous to those I describe. An important point to be observed about spermatogenesis is that the most important genetic properties (e.g, how crossover is determined) occur about two moons before a sperm is typically ejaculated. It may well be (a common theory in the literature) that female orgasm increases fertility somewhat, so that when a female is still and lustful, she won't be significantly fertile for a while, until the sperm affected by her lust have developed, and so she will be very likely to in fact be fertilized by the sperm that have been affected by the lust.

This female lust it strikes me underlies many of the more mystical ideas of Eastern religions. For example, it is easy to see that Nirvana, the desire for extinction as a release from the dread cycle of transmigrating life, is analogous to the male desire for rearrangements of genetic material that occur on account of female lust. And in fact, one of the main rituals of Shivaism (the most popular Hindu sect) is pouring milk (like lust mucous a female secretion) over an erect pillar.

An hypothesis of mine is that young females (as well as very desirous females) have a greater capacity to lust. So, in fact, lust is tied up with early female sex.

Holiness, I posit, is rather opposite in its effect from female lust. More precisely, the significance of holiness is that when this emotion is felt by the male, it causes him to discourage crossover in his developing spermatozoa. Usually, a female is more rewarded by being fertilized by spermatozoa that have not undergone crossover during spermatogenesis. Indeed, a crossover between chromosomes has a small chance of producing an advantage, and a large chance of producing a disadvantage. Such a situation can often be of benefit to the male, though, on account of how compounding works. The situation is analogous to compound interest. An advantage like a positive interest rate becomes more useful as time goes on, producing greater and greater gains as time goes on. A disadvantage, on the other hand, like a negative interest rate, becomes less disadvantageous as time goes on. So the advantages of genetic crossover are mostly long term, after the female's genetic material is likely to be separated from that of her mate, while the disadvantages are mostly short term, while her genetic material is still likely to be significantly with her mate's in descendants; therefore, females can't get much of the advantage that may arise from crossover in their mates' sperm, but they can suffer from the disadvantage. Therefore, females are more pleased by holiness in males. Holiness is something that good men feel for females they love well because they unselfishly want to please their mate. It follows that in fact good males do tend to be more holy than bad males.

The archetypal holiness emotion is that which a man feels for a well-loved woman. By extension, other well-loved beautiful things can elicit holy emotions. For instance, the best most carefully and artistically written series of mathematics texts is probably the Bourbaki math books, and they have the capacity to inspire holy feelings in me towards them. What actually inspired me, however, to discover what holiness was was when I discovered that girls, too, were holy. They were sexy and holy. I was very surprised, because I had sort of assumed that holiness was something I would feel for a girl unless I really seriously wanted to care for her, and yet I didn't feel like marriage was something I wanted. Yep, I discovered what holiness was at about the same time I developed my theory of nymphetal philokalia. Girls are holy, and inspire in me the same holiness that I might feel for a very clean elegant math book or a particular well-loved female. My sexual desires for young females are much more pure and noble than my desires for most older females. As for why I choose the term "philokalia", I did so merely because it is a word which in Greek means "love of goodness", which is what girls tend to especially love in males. It isn't just a name of a book, it is an actual word which English has no counterpart for that I know of. Not that it being a name of a book concerned with holiness bothers me, though. Male "holy" chemical is something good males probably tend to release more of, and so male holiness probably tends to select for sperm coding diploidly for moral traits. And nymphettes are extremely pleased by sperm having moral (diploid) traits, since only that sort of sperm is likely to have an association between an ability to prosper and survive inside young females and a tendency to code for desirable characteristics. Holiness is something good males do tend to feel for young females--it would be mean to feel otherwise. Certainly I find girls holy.

An interesting point is that for sex with girls to be meaningful, it has to be slow. As I mentioned, it takes a couple moons for female lust and male holiness to have their effects. And doubtless sperm selection in females is more meaningful if male sex is more drop-by-drop than orgasmic (so the sperm can more be adsorbed by the female cervix, etc.). It follows from the difficulty of hiding things that last a long time, therefore, that really the kind of sex that is meaningful to girls is not something that it is very easy to be sneaky or dangerous about. Thus, by outlawing nymphetal sex, unless really draconian measures are taken, you really won't be effectively discouraging girls from having sex with bad people (who had just assume have sex for ten seconds and who from their other criminal tendencies are likely to have a capacity for getting away with crime) nearly as much as you will be discouraging them from having sex with good people (who would tend to have sex that is difficult to hide on account of it lasting a long time and who are likely to be rather transparent so far as having committed a crime is concerned). Probably good males are more hesitant to go to jail, also.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 07:00 pm
blatham wrote:
montana

Just found this thread now. Brave of you to toss your experience into the forum for discussion.

It's a tough question. Human variation is great, in maturity and in intention, and no rule will be appropriate in all cases. It is simply a necessary consequence of living in a complicated society that rules (really often quite arbitrary, often based on local cultural silliness - eg laws regarding sodomy or oral-genital contact) need to be established and policed. One hopes that some wisdom and balance and a sophistication of nuance will appear in the relationship with the 'perpetrator' and the judge, though that is sometimes a romantic hope too.



I agree, it is a tough question! On one hand, everyone should be free to make their own choices, but on the other hand there are very bad people out there who will take advantage of young girls and boys and rob the rest of the world of their freedom. My situation was unique and I never regretted my relationship him, but I did regret that we had to hide it.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 07:06 pm
Step
This question is not about lust and sex, it's about caring, loving and making love. It's about relationships.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 12:09 am
Safecracker, I was startled, I thought you were telling me to get over my fear of nerds.... then I remembered that I posted about my concern re my niece. Very Happy
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step314
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 03:51 pm
Love vs. sex?
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This question is not about lust and sex, it's about caring, loving and making love. It's about relationships.


The most meaningful way a fertile female has of loving an unrelated male is through sex, not caring. Females tend to care for offspring automatically.

It may be that caring is the most significant aspect of love from a male, but it is entirely possible for a male who is a caring person (toward someone else) to want merely sex. And it is entirely possible for males to express love through sex, by making the sex more loving and unselfish than normal (not that such unselfishness is likely to be more loving than caring would be, but it is still somewhat loving). Perhaps I misunderstood you? If this was just friendship and the guy never had sex with you, what is the big deal? And if he did, but didn't marry you first, I would say that is not very suggestive of strong caring feelings on his part toward you.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 07:09 pm
Re: Love vs. sex?
step314 wrote:

The most meaningful way a fertile female has of loving an unrelated male is through sex, not caring.


Meaningful to whom?
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step314
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 09:20 pm
Meaning
Quote:
Meaningful to whom?


Meaningful to people with sensibility. That's what so bothers me about the 1950's as commonly portrayed. The women in the movies from then largely behave as though love means mainly keeping a perfect house and ensuring that dinner is always on time, special, and made with a smile. That's what happens to societies that are excessively pro-marriage, where a woman can't easily opt to openly be a single mother by a man she loves more than any man who is willing to care for her, that is, to choose sexual love over a promise of money and resources--love doesn't matter much. (Nor would men be able to love by caring extra specially for a wife, since mistress-chasing being impossible would always make it in the best interest of a husband to care well for his wife and children). What's more, what love that can be expressed is more dependent on the existence of large income differences. Indeed, in a total marriage society, the most important love is that which could cause you to marry someone poor because you love him or her more than someone else.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 09:23 pm
Step
Sex was involved, but that didn't come for quite some time and people don't have to be married to one another to make love to eachother. We were in love with eachother before we made love, so the relationship wasn't based on sex.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 09:27 pm
Step
You keep losing me. Where did marriage and money come into the picture?
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safecracker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 09:28 pm
step314 you sound like you have never been in love. To me I feel love through monogomy and so does my wife among other things to her the best way for me to show I love her is by making her feel safe and making her feel I love who she is not just her body. Everyone is different and everyone feels different. You make many generalizations. I am not a rich man and my wife works to help support our family our love has nothing to do with sex, showing our love is done though caring just as much as sex and even though both are great it is not the sex that keeps us togather or reminds us of how we love each other.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 09:31 pm
safecracker wrote:
step314 you sound like you have never been in love. To me I feel love through monogomy and so does my wife among other things to her the best way for me to show I love her is by making her feel safe and making her feel I love who she is not just her body. Everyone is different and everyone feels different. You make many generalizations. I am not a rich man and my wife works to help support our family our love has nothing to do with sex, showing our love is done though caring just as much as sex and even though both are great it is not the sex that keeps us togather or reminds us of how we love each other.



Exactly my thoughts. I couldn't have said it better.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2003 12:05 am
I married someone poor as (and not because) I loved him more than someone else, and that is not all it is cracked up to be.

I would suggest, in not a condescending way, that people just get on with loving who they are with.


(usually).
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safecracker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2003 12:16 am
well osso I married my wife because I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her and I loved nobody else not truely as true love is a 1 time thing. It soun ds like you didn't find true love and just settled for what you had.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2003 12:21 am
No, I didn't settle and we did love. Not all love works out. I hope you don't experience that the hard way.
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