NO justice for gay pride?

Hi all,

I've been reading this, it's pretty funny.

It sounds like either they get proper approval to hold the event, or they don't get to hold it,...just like any other event. If it gets approved,..GREAT,..if it doesn't, it doesn't. Maybe being proud of who you have sex with, isn't an appropriate reason for celebration in the office. I'm not saying that people should be ashamed of being gay, or straight, or bi, or tri,....I'm just saying that maybe these things really don't have much to do with work.

I am sick to death of gay people (and I'm a gay man) using the perceived public bias against their sexual preference as an excuse for everthing that's wrong with the world. If more people concentrated on their own lives, rather than worrying about what others think of them,..this world would be a much happier place.

I've mentioned my view on these parades before,.....I just don't like parades in general,..personal preference. But I understand that others like them, and I wouldn't take them away from them. I also understand parades for heroes, for holidays and such.

I will never understand why "my people" get a parade because of who they decide to sleep with,.....does anyone else see what I mean??

I go to Pride events, and always have a blast,...we can really throw a party Very Happy

,..but I still don't "get it"

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I get it!

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And I understand how difficult it was to be gay, how much things have changed because of activism,...I appreciate these things.

I just think that sometimes we cross the lines of taste, and logic.

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JerryR wrote:

I will never understand why "my people" get a parade because of who they decide to sleep with,.....does anyone else see what I mean??

the same reason some people 'get' parades for chasing leprechuans, others get them for believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Cuz people like parades!

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I think what is so offensive about this incident is the callous dismissal of an already established event for the clear purpose of denigrating the gay lifestyle from a guy (Ashcroft) who is ten steps right of Jerry Falwell and using his position to speak to his personal
ideas.

Abuse of power is the real thorn in this problem IMO.

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I will throw a bomb into the discussion.
What do gay people have to be proud about? The fact that they are gay?

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Well, everyone should be proud of who they are.

I'm just not sure that everything people are proud of has to be made into a big deal.

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ehBeth wrote:

JerryR wrote:
I will never understand why "my people" get a parade because of who they decide to sleep with,.....does anyone else see what I mean??

the same reason some people 'get' parades for chasing leprechuans, others get them for believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Cuz people like parades!

Bethie, I know what you mean, and I agree with you.
I do have a sneaking suspicion that you know what I mean too.

There is a big difference between a parade because of the kind of sex you like, and a parade for the Easter Bunny.

(at least I HOPE ther is, or dlowan better look out! Laughing

)

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'urp. Yeah, I do, Jerry. Sorta.

I think I'm coming at it from the angle of, "what's wrong with it?" vs. "what's right about it?".

I know that the Toronto Gay Pride Parade has a large contingent of straight marchers, has more straight attendees than gay, and brings in tons of gay and straight tourists. I suspect (never mind, I know) that most of the other Pride Week events have more gay than straight participants. The parade is very much a community event, with equality for all members of the community being the significant theme.

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Yes, and I completely agree.

I have alot of fun at the events here in Boston, though I just don't "Do" parades (any).
I love the diversity, and the feelings of good will from (almost) all involved.
I certainly don't advocate taking that fun away from anybody.

Just noting the difference between the reasons for certain parades and events, and I can understand why some people wouldn't want them. Those people simply don't have to be involved with events that they don't believe in, there's surely no good in being involved against having them.

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AU said-I will throw a bomb into the discussion.
What do gay people have to be proud about? The fact that they are gay?
-------------
This, I do have an idear about.
If I was horribly maligned about an intergral part of who I was--gayness--I may want to stand up and say "I'm gay, and you won't make me ashamed of it!"

But, this is where I agree so strongly with JerryR. The 'flamboyant sex in your face' is not the way I would go about it. Because it hurts my cause and wrecks my case that gay people are normal citizens, who contribute to our society, and instead makes them look like sex-crazed people others may want to shield their children from. IMO, these stereotypes hurt the gay cause, rather than support it.

Have enjoyed the convo.

Per ehBeth-- I remember a Seinfeld episode where Elaine was driven up a wall due to all the office parties. Showers, parties and personal celebrations AND prayer meetings should be done off the clock, IMO. I was a govt employee and I thought all this on the clock BS was a serious waste of taxpayer's money.

Enjoyed the after hours parties much more.

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I have seen religious fundamentalists protesting at the funeral of a gay teenager who was bashed to death-because he was gay. They need to stand up for themselves.

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Right, wilso. I had forgotten about that.

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au1929 wrote:

I will throw a bomb into the discussion.
What do gay people have to be proud about? The fact that they are gay?

I am sure gay people, like us straights, have many things to be "proud of" -- and I think the "gay pride" they are discussing does not really go to those issues.

The gay pride apparently is their way of saying "We are here -- and we are humans -- so get the hell off our backs."

Sort of like the days when we saw black men holding signs saying "I am a man!"

Anyone who truly cannot empathize with what the gay community is trying to do with these "gay pride" events really ought to have their empathy button checked.

And anyone who has to hone in on the occasional few nuts who manaage to present the caricature images of gays in order to give legitimacy to their negative thoughts about these events -- ought to have something check also.

Where the hell is the empathy in you people? Does it always have to come down to a loved one being the object of hatred and dirision before you people wake up?

Get with the program.

We are all humans. Act like you can love another human even though he/she is different. And at least make an attempt to understand the kinds of motives at work in this issue being discussed.

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All political discussions aside - this is one hell of a "pick up" party Laughing

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hehe

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It's a struggle.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,974220,00.html

Wherever there's a forbidden frontier, I think people simply have to push it.

"Because it's there."

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41300-2003Jun10.html

HAH!!!!

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Quote:

Gov't Changes Mind on Gay Employee Event

By CURT ANDERSON
The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 10, 2003; 7:20 PM

WASHINGTON - Attorney General John Ashcroft will allow gay and lesbian Justice Department employees to hold an annual gathering at agency headquarters if they foot the bill, a move critics said Tuesday was a clumsy reversal of a previous decision.

Officials with the group DOJ Pride said last week that they were told the awards ceremony could not be held in the agency's Great Hall next Wednesday.

But agency spokesman Mark Corallo said the intention was not to block the group from holding the event, only to make it clear it would not be officially sponsored by the department. That means the group's members must pay any costs themselves.

"They will not be officially sponsored this year, just like every other group," Corallo said. "They took that to mean they couldn't have the event."

Allison Nichol, vice president of DOJ Pride, disputed that. She said the organization was told clearly last week they could not hold the event in the Great Hall, the Justice Department courtyard or a conference room - even if they paid for it.

Still, Nichol said the group would welcome the change as a "partial reversal" of the previous ban while hoping that "they would be willing to sponsor this event." She also said other employee groups have in the past had their events sponsored.

Reports of the denial prompted outrage among gay and lesbian groups and from Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., who wrote an angry letter to Ashcroft questioning the Justice Department's commitment to fairness.

Lautenberg issued a statement Tuesday calling the new policy "the politics of a cover-up" and said he would urge hearings by the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee into possible violations of civil rights stemming from the incident.

Ashcroft had promised during his Senate confirmation hearings in 2001 that he would continue to allow DOJ Pride to hold its event.

David Smith, spokesman for Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights group in Washington, also praised the department for reversing what he called its previous "outright denial" of the event. But he said withdrawal of department sponsorship still represents a step backward.

"Sponsorship sends an important message to the employee group: that their work is valued," Smith said.

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EhBeth

Good article -- thanks for posting it.

John Ashcroft is a slug -- and it is too bad his conduct is reported so widely. He really corrupts youth with his conduct.

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NO justice for gay pride?

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