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What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 05:46 pm
JosephMorgan, If you really understand human history, did you know that all humans come from the same ancestor in Africa? Have you ever read James Michener's "Hawaii?" Are divorces more common in mono-racial marriages or multi-racial marriages? c.i.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 05:56 pm
JosephMorgan wrote:
Maybe the answer is so simple that people don't see it. Yes, if you had no marriages, you would have no divorce. If you have only one race living in a territory, you would have no racial hatred.


Joe

I think we have established the fact that if you have only one race living in an area -- and if you exclude, as you do, hating neighbors -- you would probably have no racial friction.

I don't think that is in substantial dispute at all.

If you have no humans at all living in an area -- you would have no racial friction either.

But so what?

Of what practical use is that information?

That is the thrust of what we are trying to pile-drive through the barrier we are encountering.

BTW -- on the offshoot chance that you realize the absurdity of your thesis here and are just pulling our leg -- you are doing a bang-up job.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:02 pm
"Here we go 'round the mulberry bush......"

I am totally amazed that this thread has gone on for so long.

FrankApisa- I think that you have hit the nail right on the head
!

Quote:
BTW -- on the offshoot chance that you realize the absurdity of your thesis here and are just pulling our leg -- you are doing a bang-up job.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:04 pm
Besides, what would you do with people who already have multi-races in their blood? Execute them? Will they be a danger to themselves from racism? c.i.
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au1929
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:11 pm
Phoenix32890
Have you noticed the more absurd the post the longer it lasts. I wonder what the reason for that is?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:14 pm
We all love absurdity? c.i.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:17 pm
au1929- Beats me! Confused
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:34 pm
steissd wrote:

IMO, this is wrong: substantial portion of Israelis support creation of the Palestinian state (such a wide popular support enabled Mr. Sharon to neglect opinion of his own political party). Many of Israelis, however, would like Arab citizens to emigrate there: this would make Israel a safer place.


I'm not talking about transfer from Isreal, but rather from the territories. ISraelis fluctuate in their support for a Palestinian state or Palestinian transfer.

The poll I refer to that showed well over 50% supporting transfer was at the height of the suicide bombings.

I think that if 10 bombings happen in the next 3 months Israeli support for a Palestinian state will wane and Israeli support for transfer will grow.

steissd wrote:

I would not say that direct participance of Israeli Arabs in terror is high (they tend rather to support efforts of Palestinians than to put at risk their own life and well-being), but the demographic threat is very sufficient. Just imagine 50+ million Arabs in the USA (20 percent of population) to realize the scale of the problem.


I think the danger you refer to is more in potential than reality. A lot of support that goes to terrorist activities was not given specifically for that purpose.

Contributions to Arab charities often wind up in the hands of extremists.

steissd wrote:

Establishment of the Palestinian state completely isolated from Israel and transfer of all the Israeli Arabs (that define themselves as Palestinians, by the way) could solve this problem. They could move to houses that the settlers will leave; if this is not enough, I am ready to pay an additional temporary tax to finance building for them housing on the territory of Palestine.



I support that idea but only if you can lure (not force) them out of Isreal. Thing is, it's gonna take a lot more money than you have. :-) The territories are the poorest places on earth. To make them attractive in comparison to Isreal will be hard and the US and Europe should shoulder a lot of it.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:39 pm
JosephMorgan wrote:

Mono-racial societies eliminate racism, period, at least the manifestation of racial hatred. Theoritically you don't need multi-racial societies to create and maintain human communities. After all, the rule in history has been mono-racial societies.


You have found a false rulebook. It's probably version 1.4. That one was notorious for the joke Pete (the guy who decides what the "rules in history" are) inserted. See Pete thought it was funny to include that "the rule in history has been mono-racial societies" even though he knew it was not supported by fact.

you should get History Rulebook 2.0 that version corrected the factual error.

JosephMorgan wrote:

Maybe the answer is so simple that people don't see it. Yes, if you had no marriages, you would have no divorce. If you have only one race living in a territory, you would have no racial hatred.


If you had no race at all you'd have no:

gunshot wounds
gang violence
human polution
unemployment
rape of human women
.......................................


The solution is obviously to eliminate all humans. :-)

JosephMorgan wrote:

Mono-racial societies might be the most harmonious, as a rule


Another one of Pete's jokes. You really should look into Rules of Life 3.0 by Pete. He stopped pulling people's legs after 2.x.
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sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:43 pm
So, Craven, why should any of us bear any of the resonsibility for this financing of "Palestinians"? Their brother Arabs are quite quite wealthy, you know. Perhaps the $10,000,000 Prince What's-His-Name offered, but was declined by NYC, could be a beginning, waddya say? What is this blind spot of hatred from the left toward Israel/non-self-hating Jews? Oh, I get it, it's a way to have just one link to the right; sorry, forgot for a minute. Rolling Eyes
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:51 pm
Their "brother" Arabs are not "quite wealthy"at all. That is a common misperception.

10 million is a drop in the bucket.

I think you are rambling and making little sense.

Why should we give aid to Egypt or Isreal? Why anyone?

If you can answer that you'll be half way there on your way to understanding why we should (and if there is a deal WILL) give aid to Palestinians.

1) we already give aid to Palestinians, this is because our government understands geopolitical reality better than you do

2) Aid will help bring about a settlement. This is something almost everyone wants

There are many other reasons but the bottom line is that both Isreal and Palestine will get substantial aid packages when/if the settlement occurs.

There will be other carrots as well.

Arab nations will probably offer full normalization with Isreal (this is VERY important as it will greatly lessen teh likihood of Arab/Israeli hostility) The US will recognize Jesrusalem as Isreal's capital (we are unlikely to do so until there is a settlement) and the Palestinians need to have a bone thrown their way as well.

One big reason to give aid to the Palestinians is to get them to give up the "right to return".

This is a legal right that they possess but that is simply not acceptable. To get them to give it up we need to dangle a carrot.

As to your rant about a blind spot for Isreal and self-hating Jews please spare it for a venue that welcomes such nonsense.

It's sad to see Jews calling each other "self hating" at the drop of a hat. It's not a frivolous accusation and it's not to be leveled for political rhetoric.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 06:56 pm
Incidentally other Arab nations will contribute but it will be largely symbolic.
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au1929
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:09 pm
sweetcomplication
I am curious what you refer to when you say "self hating Jews" You must have heard the comment. If you have three Jews there will be two synagogues. We are notorious for arguing with each other. I suppose that comes from our study of the Talmud.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:18 pm
au, the three Jews, two synagogues argument doesn't hold up. I've never seen a synagogue built for a single Jew. c.i.
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sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:24 pm
Craven, as to your last, at this point anyway, 2 posts:

1) yeah, right; oh, arrogant one;
2) but it's a start;
3) but, you certainly aren't rambling, though, are you?
4) It's Israel, not Isreal; if it were "is real" there would be no problems;
5) this only referred to "individual aid, which if you had followed this thread, you would have seen where someone else offered to send his own money;
6) of course, I agree with aid from the U.s.A.; oh, please!
7) I know most people probably do want this; count me among them;
8) full normalization with Israel; I doubt it; look up their Nazi connections if you can climb down off your high horse long enough to do so;
9) right of return? then, Native Americans need to be given back there land now! btw: your Eminence is aware that a 2-state solution was offered to both sides upon creation of the State of Israel in 1947? the response was a resounding "yes" from the Israelis and just the opposite from the "Palestinians" followed by a full-on attack from Arab states, which Israel won anyway, even with so many nearly beaten-down survivors as the newest segment of the population;
10) there was no drop-of-the hat "rant", as you put it, re self-hating Jews; this has been a long-standing conflict among us; I'm almost certain you've heard of internalized self-hatred?
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Scipio
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:34 pm
I can't quite see where Craven stands. Do you want a right of return or don't you? I thought you thought it was understandible for Israelis to want transfer.

Secondly, the Arab countries are rich. Very rich. So rich in fact, that some of them require no taxes from their citizens. Well, let me restate that, the citizens of those countries are, for the most part, dirt poor. Their leaders on the other hand...

And the aid we give to the majority of countries we give it to (just by the fact that those countries need aid) do not give that aid to their people. They just use it to build another palace.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:39 pm
Blah blah blah, and a big oy vey...I must consult the master...hang on a sec, I need one hand for the puppet and one to type...

"Yoda this is, Craven on both sides speak with no real point...Joe in circular meaningless motion speaks...Yoda think thread is done. Yoda eat lizard now and swat lightsabre at computer."
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:42 pm
sweetcomplication,

Please phrase your arguments coherently.

There is no factual basis for your arguments. You simply rant and vociferate emotions.

Let's make this easy.

I'm arrogant, an ass, ride a high horse (his name is Boodle BTW) and am a vlillain of, as blatham would say, Biblical proportions.

Now that we got insulting me out of the way we can try substantiating your arguments.

sweetcomplication wrote:

1) yeah, right; oh, arrogant one;


We already did the insult craven thing so whenever you want to add anything to that feel free to do so. Most Arab nations are not rich, the few that are are rich in per capita but not in volume. This is supported by statistics.

If you'd like to contend this feel free to look up some statistics and show me.

sweetcomplication wrote:

2) but it's a start;


A very small start. 10 million really is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount that is needed.

sweetcomplication wrote:

3) but, you certainly aren't rambling, though, are you?


I ramble all the time. But I try to get in a valid argument every now and then.

Don't get angry if someone says you ramble. It's not an indignity or anything.

Watch: I ramble. I am rambling.

My ego is intact.

sweetcomplication wrote:

4) It's Israel, not Isreal; if it were "is real" there would be no problems;


I make lots of spelling errors and typos. Point them out if you wish but if I really cared about them I'd use the spell check.

Again, a point, argumen, factoid, anything to accompany the dig woudl help add to the discussion.

sweetcomplication wrote:

5) this only referred to "individual aid, which if you had followed this thread, you would have seen where someone else offered to send his own money;


I do not think individual aid is significant. If your point is that YOU shouldn't give money I couldn't care less. I was speaking of bigger fish.

sweetcomplication wrote:

6) of course, I agree with aid from the U.s.A.; oh, please!


common ground. Let's build a fort. You can pick the flag's colors.

sweetcomplication wrote:

7) I know most people probably do want this; count me among them;


good to hear. More common ground. Do we make a footy field or a basketball court? You decide because the pool is mine.

sweetcomplication wrote:
8) full normalization with Israel; I doubt it; look up their Nazi connections if you can climb down off your high horse long enough to do so;


Whose Nazi connections? I believe you may have stepped into a grey area as far as facts are concerned.

anywho, the horse's name is Boodle!

sweetcomplication wrote:

9) right of return? then, Native Americans need to be given back there land now!


You can find me saying that I do not support "right of return" in many places.

What you will not find is one single instance of me supporting "right of return".

So, this is common ground but you don't seem to get that.

sweetcomplication wrote:

btw: your Eminence is aware that a 2-state solution was offered to both sides upon creation of the State of Israel in 1947? the response was a resounding "yes" from the Israelis and just the opposite from the "Palestinians"


In retrospect this was a big error on the Arab's part.

But it's easy to understand their motivations.

Isreal will of course say yes. After all they stood to gain.

The Arabs stood to lose territory with nothing to gain. This is why they rejected it. Now before you rant at me about this I have already said this was a mistake on their part.

sweetcomplication wrote:

10) there was no drop-of-the hat "rant", as you put it, re self-hating Jews; this has been a long-standing conflict among us; I'm almost certain you've heard of internalized self-hatred?


Thing is, sc, you seem loaded for bear. You miss common ground and sometimes find disagreement where there is none.

I know that "self hating Jew" is an old term.

You claim it was not employed fecklessly by yourself so please tell us who you were directing the accusation toward.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:47 pm
Scipio wrote:
I can't quite see where Craven stands. Do you want a right of return or don't you? I thought you thought it was understandible for Israelis to want transfer.


To achieve peace in the mideast I believe it is IMPERATIVE that the Palestinians give up their demand for "right of return".

Many Arabs have already done so and now call it "fair and equitable settlement".

In diplospeak that is a big step. Many Arabs are no longer demanding it and shouldn't be.

Scipio wrote:
Secondly, the Arab countries are rich. Very rich. So rich in fact, that some of them require no taxes from their citizens. Well, let me restate that, the citizens of those countries are, for the most part, dirt poor. Their leaders on the other hand...


There you have it. Many individuals are rich in Arab nations. The nations themselves are not so rich.

A common misperception.

Scipio wrote:

And the aid we give to the majority of countries we give it to (just by the fact that those countries need aid) do not give that aid to their people. They just use it to build another palace.


Back that up. Show me American dollars being used to build a palace.

America is not stupid. We do not pour money into sinks.

We do our best to require fiscal accountability before giving aid and almost always have strings attached.

Sometimes mistakes are made but your aboove sentence is off the cuff.

Please illustrate an Amerucan dollar from the American governbment being misused on a palace.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2003 07:47 pm
c.i
That is an expression made to illustrate a point. It is not meant to be taken literally. I would have thought you would have understood that. Darn wrong again! Or are you pulling my leg?
0 Replies
 
 

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