Is abortion really wrong?

so you think that uor country can take on some additional ~800,000 (conservative#) human beings a year? That we have enough schools and homes? How many years? Are all the homes a safe enviroment? Is there avalible support for that many extra mothers? You think there enough willing families to adopt? There are plenty of children waitnig for a home right now. If our culture, cant find the homes for them, where are the homes going to be for all the additional people.

Cultures do take care of people. I'm not sure you grasp the gravity of this. You can't rally to end abortion if you don't enable our culture to be successful. You continue to fail to see how large this issue is.

If you want to convince someone to not get an abortion, you'll have to show them that they have options. As of right now, options are lacking. If they keep the child they might not be able to afford it, if they give up the child the child may or may not get adopted, and to boot, if they do get adopted, they take a home from a older child.

You have not shown that you understand this issue at all. I'd stop and regroup your thoughts and efforts. There is a thin line between righteous and right, be careful.

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real life wrote:

Eorl wrote:
[First I would protect the victim. If the perpetrator is protected as a consequence then so-be-it.

Do you think the victim is better protected by bringing the rapist to justice, or by letting him off free?

The victim is better protected by bringing the rapist to justice, of course.

If the victim could be protected AND the rapist brought to justice then great. But first, I would protect the victim.

You are being deliberately dense about this rl. Medical professionals do not protect rapists for their own amusement.

real life wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Did you think abortion clinics have those policies so that the rapists could drum up more business ?

The abortionists care nothing about the victim of a rape and flout the law that requires them to report the crime.

This enables them to protect only their own interest -- to make a buck. Apparently you approve of this.

I can't imagine for a second that you really believe that. You aren't stupid.

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This may be a dumb question, but it is an honest one. How is the victim proctected by keeping it a secret?

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Diest TKO wrote:

so you think that uor country can take on some additional ~800,000 (conservative#) human beings a year? That we have enough schools and homes? How many years? Are all the homes a safe enviroment? Is there avalible support for that many extra mothers? You think there enough willing families to adopt? There are plenty of children waitnig for a home right now. If our culture, cant find the homes for them, where are the homes going to be for all the additional people.

Cultures do take care of people. I'm not sure you grasp the gravity of this. You can't rally to end abortion if you don't enable our culture to be successful. You continue to fail to see how large this issue is.

If you want to convince someone to not get an abortion, you'll have to show them that they have options. As of right now, options are lacking. If they keep the child they might not be able to afford it, if they give up the child the child may or may not get adopted, and to boot, if they do get adopted, they take a home from a older child.

You have not shown that you understand this issue at all. I'd stop and regroup your thoughts and efforts. There is a thin line between righteous and right, be careful.

Are you suggesting that abortion is a means of population control?

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echi wrote:

This may be a dumb question, but it is an honest one. How is the victim proctected by keeping it a secret?

Echi, I'm not an expert in such things, but the fundamental principle is that the victim must always feel safe to seek medical attention without further consequences, whatever their reasons may be.

I found this that may help clarify: apologies for the length but I feel it's important here:

Quote:

Quotes attributable to: Liz Davies, Director of UK Operations for Marie Stopes International
Source: http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/uk/press/press-uk-230106.htm

This is in response to laws being retained to protect the right to privacy of under 16's from their parents in the UK, but the principles of safety and care are the same.

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Thanks, Eorl.

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Abortion is murder.

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Eorl wrote:

real life wrote:
Eorl wrote:
[First I would protect the victim. If the perpetrator is protected as a consequence then so-be-it.

Do you think the victim is better protected by bringing the rapist to justice, or by letting him off free?

The victim is better protected by bringing the rapist to justice, of course.

If the victim could be protected AND the rapist brought to justice then great. But first, I would protect the victim.

You are being deliberately dense about this rl. Medical professionals do not protect rapists for their own amusement.

real life wrote:
Eorl wrote:
Did you think abortion clinics have those policies so that the rapists could drum up more business ?

The abortionists care nothing about the victim of a rape and flout the law that requires them to report the crime.

This enables them to protect only their own interest -- to make a buck. Apparently you approve of this.

I can't imagine for a second that you really believe that. You aren't stupid.

If you think that abortionists aren't in business to make a buck, you ought to think again. Abortion is a very lucrative business with almost none of the oversight required in traditional medicine.

Eorl wrote:

echi wrote:
This may be a dumb question, but it is an honest one. How is the victim proctected by keeping it a secret?

Echi, I'm not an expert in such things, but the fundamental principle is that the victim must always feel safe to seek medical attention without further consequences, whatever their reasons may be.

Don't you think that the rape victim would feel safest if the rapist was in a cell?

Don't you think that the rape victim is in the least safe position if the rapist is free and nobody knows what happened? This seems so obvious.

If the 'medical community' as represented by the abortionist is willing to shield the rapist from consequence in order to make a few bucks, how is the victim made safer under that circumstance?

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baddog1 wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
so you think that uor country can take on some additional ~800,000 (conservative#) human beings a year? That we have enough schools and homes? How many years? Are all the homes a safe enviroment? Is there avalible support for that many extra mothers? You think there enough willing families to adopt? There are plenty of children waitnig for a home right now. If our culture, cant find the homes for them, where are the homes going to be for all the additional people.

Cultures do take care of people. I'm not sure you grasp the gravity of this. You can't rally to end abortion if you don't enable our culture to be successful. You continue to fail to see how large this issue is.

If you want to convince someone to not get an abortion, you'll have to show them that they have options. As of right now, options are lacking. If they keep the child they might not be able to afford it, if they give up the child the child may or may not get adopted, and to boot, if they do get adopted, they take a home from a older child.

You have not shown that you understand this issue at all. I'd stop and regroup your thoughts and efforts. There is a thin line between righteous and right, be careful.

Are you suggesting that abortion is a means of population control?

No. Abortion is abortion, and murder is not abortion. I'm making Abortion illegal is to create more more problems; that it is cultural negligence. Population control? No. Walking down that road would be equally harnfull, because it could lead to mandated abortion, an equal offence to those who wish to protect our liberties. I'm just saying that if a mother is unable to take care of her child, she should not be forced to commit to doing so. She should have the choice to find and alternative. I'd prefer the adoption alternative, but we do a crappy job right now with how many children need homes already.

Do the math: Anti-Choice = sucks.

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Diest TKO wrote:

baddog1 wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
so you think that uor country can take on some additional ~800,000 (conservative#) human beings a year? That we have enough schools and homes? How many years? Are all the homes a safe enviroment? Is there avalible support for that many extra mothers? You think there enough willing families to adopt? There are plenty of children waitnig for a home right now. If our culture, cant find the homes for them, where are the homes going to be for all the additional people.

Cultures do take care of people. I'm not sure you grasp the gravity of this. You can't rally to end abortion if you don't enable our culture to be successful. You continue to fail to see how large this issue is.

If you want to convince someone to not get an abortion, you'll have to show them that they have options. As of right now, options are lacking. If they keep the child they might not be able to afford it, if they give up the child the child may or may not get adopted, and to boot, if they do get adopted, they take a home from a older child.

You have not shown that you understand this issue at all. I'd stop and regroup your thoughts and efforts. There is a thin line between righteous and right, be careful.

Are you suggesting that abortion is a means of population control?

No. Abortion is abortion, and murder is not abortion. I'm making Abortion illegal is to create more more problems; that it is cultural negligence. Population control? No. Walking down that road would be equally harnfull, because it could lead to mandated abortion, an equal offence to those who wish to protect our liberties. I'm just saying that if a mother is unable to take care of her child, she should not be forced to commit to doing so. She should have the choice to find and alternative. I'd prefer the adoption alternative, but we do a crappy job right now with how many children need homes already.

Do the math: Anti-Choice = sucks.

You seem to suggest that it is economics that drives many women to abortion, and if they could afford to raise a child they would.

Do you really think by throwing money at the problem it will go away?

Nobody is 'forcing' a woman to commit to raising a child. Lack of money is not sufficient reason to kill a child, however.

If she doesn't want to raise the child, adoption (even with it's shortcomings) is a much better option than death, wouldn't you agree?

Ask anyone who was adopted, even if they waited a long time, if they would rather be dead.

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Diest TKO wrote:

... I'd prefer the adoption alternative, but we do a crappy job right now with how many children need homes already.

Do the math: Anti-Choice = sucks.

You can't be serious. Why in the world would you prefer the "adoption alternative"?

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real life wrote:

If she doesn't want to raise the child, adoption (even with it's shortcomings) is a much better option than death, wouldn't you agree?

Ask anyone who was adopted, even if they waited a long time, if they would rather be dead.

What bs. Another value judgement. Adoption better than abortion? Depends who you ask!
If you aren't born, how can you care one way or the other? We're talking about aborting fetus' not adults.

Besides, it is ridiculous to expect women to automatically default to 'the adoption alternative'.

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real life wrote:

If you think that abortionists aren't in business to make a buck, you ought to think again. Abortion is a very lucrative business with almost none of the oversight required in traditional medicine.

Don't you think that the rape victim would feel safest if the rapist was in a cell?

Don't you think that the rape victim is in the least safe position if the rapist is free and nobody knows what happened? This seems so obvious.

If the 'medical community' as represented by the abortionist is willing to shield the rapist from consequence in order to make a few bucks, how is the victim made safer under that circumstance?

You are seriously making a claim that the point of abortion anonymity is to make a buck? That's ludicrous. Prove it.

What I think about a victim's safety is utterly irrelevant. It's what the victim thinks that matters. If the victim thinks they'll be safer by reporting it (which you seem to presume means the offender automatically get executed later that same day and everyone lives happily ever after) then they are free, and encouraged, to do so.

Yes, it seems so obvious that rapists in prison are better than rapists free. But it's just as obvious to me that girls who seek safer earlier abortions should be given it without the fear of having to make a statement to police and parents....thus preventing more dangerous and later abortions.

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(Could be silly) Question, does the woman dealing with the pregnancy be the absolute and actual decider of the faith of the unborn child, do we really have to let her bear all the weight? What are the chances she could decide the right thing for her or not?

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I have said this before on A2K but I will say it again...

I believe that abortion is an acceptable course in many cases.

Why? I really personally do not believe that life begins until a fetus/baby takes it's first breath...

BUT,

When contraception becomes abortion number 5 and 6 I think these people (woman and men) should be listed with pedophiles on the net.

I also do not think that abortion should be completely anonymous or private except in certain cases such as rape and incest..

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RexRed wrote:

When contraception becomes abortion number 5 and 6 I think these people (woman and men) should be listed with pedophiles on the net.

Why, RexRed? (I want reasons, not Bible verses, please.)

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flushd wrote:

real life wrote:

If she doesn't want to raise the child, adoption (even with it's shortcomings) is a much better option than death, wouldn't you agree?

Ask anyone who was adopted, even if they waited a long time, if they would rather be dead.

...If you aren't born, how can you care one way or the other? We're talking about aborting fetus' not adults...

Huh? The question wasn't asked about those not born - it was clearly about those adopted! :wink:

From the other "abortion" thread:

"Haven't posted in a while and thought I'd jump in here.

As it's been stated on here that a fetus to a human is no different than an egg to a chicken... (Or was it yolk to a chicken? Sorry - don't recall! )

I wonder if those performing the surgeries shown on the link below are doctors, veterinarians, farmers or what?"

http://www.fetal-surgery.com/fs-pics.htm

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baddog1 wrote:

flushd wrote:
real life wrote:

If she doesn't want to raise the child, adoption (even with it's shortcomings) is a much better option than death, wouldn't you agree?

Ask anyone who was adopted, even if they waited a long time, if they would rather be dead.

...If you aren't born, how can you care one way or the other? We're talking about aborting fetus' not adults...

Huh? The question wasn't asked about those not born - it was clearly about those adopted! :wink:

From the other "abortion" thread:

"Haven't posted in a while and thought I'd jump in here.

As it's been stated on here that a fetus to a human is no different than an egg to a chicken... (Or was it yolk to a chicken? Sorry - don't recall! )

I wonder if those performing the surgeries shown on the link below are doctors, veterinarians, farmers or what?"

http://www.fetal-surgery.com/fs-pics.htm

Get a grip.

RL's question was silly. Of course, if you ask a full ADULT if they would prefer life, the majority will say "Yes, it's not bad being alive".
Though you have heard of depression and suicide right? Some would say "No, I wish I had never been born." and mean it too.

The fact is: a fetus is not an adult. A fetus does think "don't kill me! don't kill me!"
It doesn't think. It isn't an adult. So we can't ask a fetus what it wants (a fetus doesn't 'want' anything...it's a clump of cells).
And we abort fetus'...not adults. You'd think this would be obvious, but some dolts continue to argue as though a fetus had a fully functioning brain.

Now what point were you trying to make with that link? We all know you have some damn 'proof' to exclaim. ...

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echi wrote:

RexRed wrote:
When contraception becomes abortion number 5 and 6 I think these people (woman and men) should be listed with pedophiles on the net.

Why, RexRed? (I want reasons, not Bible verses, please.)

To use abortion as a contraceptive when sterilization should be the due course is just ethically and morally wrong.

Is there any justification in creating life just to kill and destroy it?

There comes a point that one weighs the morality of if it is better to mandatorily remove the ability to create life than to continue to kill life unnecessarily.

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Quote:

Get a grip.

RL's question was silly. Of course, if you ask a full ADULT if they would prefer life, the majority will say "Yes, it's not bad being alive".
Though you have heard of depression and suicide right? Some would say "No, I wish I had never been born." and mean it too.

The fact is: a fetus is not an adult. A fetus does think "don't kill me! don't kill me!"
It doesn't think. It isn't an adult. So we can't ask a fetus what it wants (a fetus doesn't 'want' anything...it's a clump of cells).
And we abort fetus'...not adults. You'd think this would be obvious, but some dolts continue to argue as though a fetus had a fully functioning brain.

Now what point were you trying to make with that link? We all know you have some damn 'proof' to exclaim. ...

Get a grip on what? You twisted RL's words - not me. And there was nothing silly about RL's words. Factual - yes, silly - no.

Glad we agree that the majority would choose "life". :wink:

You're correct that a fetus is no more an adult than a 1 day old infant, or a 1 year-old infant - neither of which thinks "don't kill me" as well. Like the fetus - they are completely dependent on another human-being(s) to sustain life.

And you remain correct that we abort fetuses albeit with a fully-functioning brain or not. (Which of course has nothing to do with the abortion-issue as many children are born without a fully functioning brain and grow into adults.)

As to "what point were you trying to make with that link" and what damn proof I am exclaiming: It's an emotional issue for you and despite any evidence (visual, physical or otherwise), you have your heels dug in and will choose not to budge. Proof? A picture (photo) is worth a thousand words.

BD1

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Is abortion really wrong?

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