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U.S. Anthem in Spanish

 
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:13 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Baldimo,

The "Today we march, Tomorrow we vote!" signs were for citizens. I carried one of those signs at the march.

You are wrong to think that this fight is Americans vs. illegals-- it is not. There are many American citizens who are fighting to win a path to earned citizenship. It is our votes and our political cloud that will ultimately win this battle.

I am a citizen who is registered to vote.


So let me get this straight. Before they gave you your sign they asked you if you were a citizen. If they didn't how did they know if you were a citizen or not? I doubt that a majority of the protestors were citizens. I still say they should have started at the protests to get the law breakers.

username wrote:
The demonstration is in May. The elections are in November, hence "Today we march, tomorrow we vote". From what I've heard, most of the marchers were citizens, either natural born or naturalized, or immigrants on their way to naturalization. I'm natural-born. Come November, I'm not going to be voting for the deportation zealots. Not that we get suchlike nutballs running for office often in Massachusetts. Thank god. But I'm gonna make sure I vote for my reps to counter the nutball voices.


You are going to vote for people that are willing to let the lawbreakers continue to break the law and flaunt it in the face of people who have taken the time to come into the country legally? Isn't that kind of a slap in the face?

Why is it you are trying to make the people who want to follow the laws of this country sound bad. The law as it stands now says that if you are here illegally then you have to leave. If we catch you we are sending you back to your own country. Why is that hard to understand? It isn't the citizens that are breaking the law it is the illegal aliens that are breaking the law. If I get a ticket for speeding I don't get off with a slap on the wrist I have to pay a fine. I don't get off easy. If you are feeling bad about what will happen to these people's families then they should have thought about that before they came here. They should have known that if they got caught they were going to pay the piper. I'm not serving in Afghanistan to protect my country so that some illegal can march on my countries soil and demand rights they don't have. When they follow the laws of my country and respect the laws of my country then maybe we will find some common ground until then they are just being disrespectful and they should be thrown out. If they want to come back the proper way then they can but to break the law isn't a good way to start off.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:19 pm
As an American citizen, I can use my vote as I see fit according to my values. You can decide how to use your vote.

I believe that we should value human decency and compassion over harsh punishments and strict enforcement of the law. Decency and understanding are American values I cherish more than draconian laws enforced by punitive measures.

If enough American citizens demand a path to legalization for undocumented workers, then it will happen. (Of course if enough Americans demand mass deportations, that's also what will happen, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.)

We are going to get our vote out.

Sorry Baldimo-- but's that is how democracy works.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:22 pm
Send me your tired, your poor,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

inscription on the base of the Statue of Liberty, written by Emma Lazarus

Too bad more people don't go and take a look at the Lady of the Harbor, and read her. She's the American promise
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:30 pm
username wrote:
Send me your tired, your poor,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

inscription on the base of the Statue of Liberty, written by Emma Lazarus

Too bad more people don't go and take a look at the Lady of the Harbor, and read her. She's the American promise


That doesn't say a thing about letting the lawbreakers stay and continue to break the laws either. People such as my self have never said stop immerigration we want the illegal immerigration to stop. There is a difference here. Like ebrown is so frequent of saying "undocumented workers". This is another way of trying to hide the facts of the issue. They are undocumented workers because they are here illegally and without permission. The continued use of the phrase is part of the problem. They are dressing up a wolf in sheeps clothing and nothing more. If should be called like it is and how it really is.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:31 pm
If we pass the McCain-Kennedy bill, they won't be here illegally any more.

How about it-- we can both be happy with that.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:36 pm
They do the jobs you won't do. They work two and three jobs to support their fammilies because they get sh*t pay. They grow and harvest our food, they tend those goddam unecological lawns you love so much, they do the piecework so your clothes don't cost an arm and a leg. They do your scutwork. The country would collapse without them. They're the ones who actually try to live the American dream, not just live off the fat of the land. Legalize them now.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:38 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
If we pass the McCain-Kennedy bill, they won't be here illegally any more.

How about it-- we can both be happy with that.


I don't want to reward illegal behavior. They should have to start over. If you are caught doing something illegal are you rewarded or are you punished? Do you have children? When they do something wrong do you give them a treat and let them go on their way?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:39 pm
username wrote:
They do the jobs you won't do. They work two and three jobs to support their fammilies because they get sh*t pay. They grow and harvest our food, they tend those goddam unecological lawns you love so much, they do the piecework so your clothes don't cost an arm and a leg. They do your scutwork. The country would collapse without them. They're the ones who actually try to live the American dream, not just live off the fat of the land. Legalize them now.


What a load of manure.

If they were not doing the jobs they are doing, someone else would. The American economy does not ride on the back of 12 million illegals. Sorry to tell you that.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:43 pm
Baldimo wrote:
I will post it here just so you know what it really says.

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

You left some out... I expected more from a patriot like you.

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:44 pm
You're wrong, McGe. Simple as that. It is precisely on their backs, pressing them down into the dirt.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:46 pm
username wrote:
They do the jobs you won't do. They work two and three jobs to support their fammilies because they get sh*t pay. They grow and harvest our food, they tend those goddam unecological lawns you love so much, they do the piecework so your clothes don't cost an arm and a leg. They do your scutwork. The country would collapse without them. They're the ones who actually try to live the American dream, not just live off the fat of the land. Legalize them now.


I would pay more for my food if it meant giving those jobs to American Citizens. I cut and water my own lawn. They don't get paid **** because they are here illegally and the employeers won't hire Americans because they would have to pay them more. If they became legal then all that would do is raise the cost of the items I use anyways. So what difference does it make. You are still wanting to reward a law breakers. I buy cheap cloths the way it is because I don't like to wear "name brand" so it wouldn't affect me anyways.

Did you stop to think that if they wouldn't hire illegals then Americans would have those jobs. How many jobs do you think Americans can't get because there is already an illegal working it? Most illegals get free health care because emergency rooms can't turn them away. How much do you think that is costing the American taxpayer? There is a hospital in San Diego that had to shut down because they couldn't afford to stay open any more. Do you think that helped anyone? No it didn't and it wasn't because of citizens.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:50 pm
Those cheap clothes you buy are the ones they make, baldimo. You'd better start buying Armani--you gonna back up your statements with action?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 12:55 pm
username wrote:
Those cheap clothes you buy are the ones they make, baldimo. You'd better start buying Armani--you gonna back up your statements with action?


Do you have any proof that they make my cloths? If so then please provide it. I would still pay more for any products I use if it meant no more illegal immerigration. Besides whos fault is it that they are working under such poor conditions and getting paid so little? It is their own fault. If things are so bad in their countrys then they should stay and make changes so that they don't have take the chance of getting caught and having to be punished. If they do get caught and sent back then they have only themselves to blame.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 01:03 pm
Not to nitpick (OK, to nitpick but it's bugging me) "clothes" are made from "cloth."

I think the really cheap stuff is actually made overseas... Market forces, y'know? At least buying clothes made by illegals keeps the money on the same continent....





IMO, the best way to combat illegal immigration is to remove the incentive to sneak in, which is to say take away the jobs. Make it a hefty fine to hire illegals, maybe even give a portion of the fine to whistle-blowers, and suddenly there won't be any jobs for illegals. (Then there'll be a huge demand that we up the quota for legal immigrants from Mexico.)
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 02:18 pm
McClellan Asked About Bush Singing National Anthem In Spanish


From a ThinkProgress commenter to the White House Press Briefing in just three hours. CNN's Ed Henry is on the case:

HENRY: Scott, on Friday the president firmly said he believes the national anthem should be sung in English. Kevin Phillips, the Republican analyst, wrote a book called American Dynasty. And in there, he claims that, during the president's 2000 campaign, he did sing The Star Spangled Banner in Spanish at some Hispanic festivals, various campaign events.

Are you aware that you recall that from the 2000 campaign?

MCCLELLAN: No, I don't.

HENRY: Do you think that that would be counter to what the president laid out on Friday?

MCCLELLAN: I don't recall that, and I'm not going to try and speculate on something I haven't looked into.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/02/mcclellan-bush-spanish-anthem/
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 02:39 pm
"He believes the same thing
wednesday, that he believed on
monday, no matter what happened
tuesday"......Colbert
0 Replies
 
Parker Cross
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 04:54 pm
username wrote:
They do the jobs you won't do. They work two and three jobs to support their fammilies because they get sh*t pay. They grow and harvest our food, they tend those goddam unecological lawns you love so much, they do the piecework so your clothes don't cost an arm and a leg. They do your scutwork. The country would collapse without them. They're the ones who actually try to live the American dream, not just live off the fat of the land. Legalize them now.


Are you an illegal, username? Because you sound like you are either an illegal, in which case your heated, but uninformed and rather poorly expressed ideas would be understandable, or you are merely an ultra-liberal who ignores the macro-economics of the situation in order to allow himself to be carried away by the illegal immigrant debate.

First of all you are absolutely right. They do do jobs that we, you and me, don't want to do. But there are a substantial percentage of the real American population that are actively vying for those jobs. Illegals are literally stealing the jobs from them by undercutting wages (look up research done by Center for Immigration Studies). You and I may not want those jobs, but there are millions of Americans that could use them.
0 Replies
 
Parker Cross
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 05:09 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
Amanece - ¿lo véis a la luz de la aurora?
Lo que tanto aclamamos la noche al caer;
sus estrellas, sus franjas flotaban ayer,
en el fiero combate, en señal de victoria.
Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertad,
por la noche decían: «¡Se va defendiendo!»
¡Oh, decid! ¿Despliega aún su hermosura estrellada,
sobre tierra de libres, la bandera sagrada?



Sus estrellas, sus franjas, la libertad, somos iguales.
Somos hermanos, es nuestro himno.
En el fiero combate, en señal de victoria,
fulgor de lucha... (Mi gente, ¡sigue luchando!)
...al paso de la libertad (¡Ya es tiempo de romper las cadenas!)
Por la noche decían: «¡Se va defendiendo!»
¡Oh, decid! ¿Despliega aún su hermosura estrellada,
sobre tierra de libres, la bandera sagrada?
[edit]
English translation
It should be noted that just like any translation, the Spanish lyrics of Nuestro Himno cannot be translated literally, word for word. For example, the Spanish word "libertad" means both "freedom" and "liberty". Because of this, this translation can never be exact, and will always be subject to differing interpretations.

Do you see it arising, by the light of the dawn,
That which we hailed so much when the night fell?
Its stars, its stripes were streaming yesterday
In the fierce combat, as a sign of victory,
The brilliance of battle, in step with freedom,
Throughout the night they said: "It will be defended!"
Oh say you! Does it still wave, its starred beauty,
Over the land of the free, the sacred flag?



Its stars, its stripes, liberty, we are equal.
We are brothers, it is our anthem.
In the fierce combat, as a sign of victory,
The brilliance of battle... (My people, keep fighting!)
...in step with freedom, (Now is the time to break the chains!)
Throughout the night they said: "It will be defended!"
Oh say you! Does it still wave, its starred beauty,
Over the land of the free, the sacred flag?


You are seriously going to say to me, with a straight face, that that is the American anthem?

edgarblythe wrote:
Translation, as a matter of practicallity, cannot be precisely literal, although the essential meaning can be preserved.


While you point out the painfully obvious, what's even more obvious to me would be how much more practical it would have been for some mediocre English composer to NOT try to hop on the debate bandwagon and translate the English American anthem into Spanish. And by the way, if you are saying that the essential meaning of the song was preserved you are not worth wasting the energy debating. The spirit of the song was somewhat translated - if you're okay with the insult of the translation - but in no way was the essence of the song preserved.

It's funny how liberals - those contemptuous individuals who tout their "cultural" awareness so - prove themselves to be so blatantly hypocritical when the issue suits them. If we began broadcasting English translations of Islamic call to prayers in Iraq the liberals would be outraged at the "lack of cultural sensitivity", the "affront to Muslims" and the like.

Hypocrites. Sickening.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 May, 2006 05:25 pm
Quote:
It's funny how liberals - those contemptuous individuals who tout their "cultural" awareness so - prove themselves to be so blatantly hypocritical when the issue suits them. If we began broadcasting English translations of Islamic call to prayers in Iraq the liberals would be outraged at the "lack of cultural sensitivity", the "affront to Muslims" and the like.

Hypocrites. Sickening.


You accuse the Liberals of being hypocrites and condemn them for doing something that they actually haven't done in real life. Real convincing argument there.

Your 'essence of the song' argument is highly subjective, yet you treat your pronouncement as fact. Are you the final arbiter of whether or not the essence of a song remains after transalation, or is it a matter of opinion?

You're really doing a great job establishing yourself as a non-partisan voice of reason early on in your posting career.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 May, 2006 01:30 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
[
You're really doing a great job establishing yourself as a non-partisan voice of reason early on in your posting career.

Cycloptichorn


Since when are we supposed to be non-partisan on an opinion forum? Does such a thing even exist?
0 Replies
 
 

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