A question for the guys...

Flushed... OMG you are so sweet. Thank you.



Yes and no. Yes because there are some things in life you can't get over until you are confronted with it. Say for example someone who is afraid of spiders. If they don't see one for 10 years it's not an issue. No problem. They may even think they got over it. Then one day a big whoppin spider comes crawling across the floor... Screaming, jumping up and down, and a panic attack follows. Reasonably speaking the way for them to get over this would be not to try to hide from spiders, since that would be virtually impossible, but rather to take baby steps to getting over that fear and eventually get to the point where instead of screaming in fear at the sight of a spider they are yelling in triumph and doing the happy dance because they just squashed it. (this actually happened for me by the way... I do the happy dance every time I kill a spider... hehehe!)

No because that's not something for right now. Or to even think about doing right now. It wouldn't be fair to myself or anyone I would consider being involved with because I do need time to heal and readjust.



You got that right! It is time for me. I rarely do that. I don't want to become self consumed. That's a lonely place to be, and it would be easy to fall into right now. As far as the rest... ummm... thanks...



Thank you flushd. I thought I did all that. I really did. I thought I was honest. I thought I was sincere. I thought I was real. Now I think that wasn't enough. Maybe that's not what he was looking for. Everything I did was a conscious act of trust. Blind trust. I haven't figured out yet if that was bad or good. Or both. I don't regret loving him. I don't regret having given myself to him. What I regret is that what I had to offer wasn't good enough. It wasn't what he really wanted. That's what hurts. That's what makes me angry. That is what has shaken the very foundation of who I am. I am a weeble wobble though. I bounce back. I will bounce back from this. And the nice thing is that when I do bounce back I pack a pretty hard punch and usually knock the one who knocked me down right on their arse.... LOL Kidding... only kidding... :wink:



Flushd you deserve to be happy and whole too. We all do. And it will happen with time. Maybe it won't come in the form or fashion we are expecting. Sometimes I think that is why people miss happiness. They are expecting one thing, looking that direction, then it blasts right past them on the other side. It's ok that you don't understand 100%. No one has to. Just the fact that you've taken time to read what I wrote, understand that there is something going on, and respond means more than if you did understand 100%. I wouldn't mind reading those articles. You can PM them to me if you want. Thanks for the invite to PM you. I'll take you up on that some time. Thanks again flushd. You rock.

(((HUGS)))

That's the problem, Chumly. At least it has been for me. I absolutely hate the games.

I'm hearin ya Heph. It's tough, I know.

I just saw this... Games suck dude...

LOL

I always hated the games and at my age, I think it's safe to say that I always will. I always shut down the player ;-)
anyone who plays games is not looking for anything meaningful.

Yeah... I'm getting too old for games...

Games suck dude...

LOL

Yeah, get with the program, Chumly

I second that motion...

Heph, the answer you are looking for is: all of the above. Most men get it. Unfortunately, the answer you're trying to avoid is true as well: most men get it, and if they don't respond it's because they're not interested. This too, is true of people in general. Try to remember there are literally thousands of legitimate reasons someone may not be interested, that do not reflect poorly on you.

That being said; eyes work best, and should be mutual, if you wish to avoid uncomfortable misunderstandings. Surely you can tell when a man is interested. Rest assured, he probably can too. If you have esteem issues with rejection; you might want to try a sales technique called the "trial close".
Example: Are you liquid for X number of $$$$? This tells a broker if a person is interested, before he asks them to buy. A good salesman will go through several trial closes and get the yeses flowing before he moves in for the actual close.

"Do you have a girlfriend?" Here you give an opportunity for a potential mate to "opt out", before you commit to being interested. Matter-of-factly ->"You should take her to such and such. Girls love that."

"Do you like Sushi?" Watch the eyes for "buying signs" and ask him to dinner if you see what you want. If not; recommend your favorite Sushi restaurant and tell him what makes it the best. You've neither committed nor disclosed anything.

Good luck!

heph,
I just wanted to acknoledge your post right now. I'm (finally) exhausted and am gonna go to bed while the gettings good (does that make sense?).
I'll response properly tomorra and send ya some good un articles.

Just remember this bit that OccomBill said:
Try to remember there are literally thousands of legitimate reasons someone may not be interested, that do not reflect poorly on you.

And yeah...games suck dude. It's tricky enough territory without any extra games thrown in da mix.

Occum Bill, thanks for the insight! What a unique perspective! There's only one blaring question left to answer then having read everything you said...

Why the heck did he marry me if he wasn't interested?? Makes not a lick of sense to me. He was perfectly interested until he got that ring on my finger. Is that normal? Maybe just a phase men go through or something?

LOL

I've decided... life is a mystery... so many things to be discovered...

Men... well... they're a mystery too... but I don't know how much there is to be discovered beyond that!

Bwaaaaaaaa hahahaha! I crack myself up!

Flushd... Thanks. Nighty nite. I'm heading there myself soon. I'm having so much fun tonight it's hard to go. I haven't had this much fun in awhile. It feels good to laugh again. To really laugh. I about busted a gut a few times tonight. Just reading the B.O.B. thread get's me going all over again. That was priceless!

Cool... me and Montanta aren't the only ones that think games suck! Whooo!

Talk to ya later.

Heph, the question of marriage without genuine interest is one that occurs time after time.... How often have you seen friends happy as a couple, then within two years of getting married turn to fighting and a split? IMO it comes down to the reason for getting married in the first place.

I cannot pretend to know your situation as this is only my third post, but I can speculate (rightly or wrongly - feel free to shoot me down if the latter) that the marriage took place when the relationship had effectively run its course. I know many people who have married because it seemed the logical step when in reality they should've cut their losses...

As for he whole 'attractiveness' thing, I reckon it all comes down to self-worth as the previous beardy-bloke said far more eloquently than I can. It doesn't mean however that you should lock yourself away until you experience an epiphany - if you get the chance of a spot of 'no strings' sha*ging with somebody who floats your boat, then to do this, and to remain on top of the situation can only boost your self-esteem.

Of course I am merely probing in the dark here....

I couldn't know that. I don't know your relationship and I've never been married. Philosophically; I believe that when something stops growing; it dies. The best generic answer I could give you is: Who cares? I believe people need reasons to stay together; not reasons to split up. If it isn't working, and can't be fixed, move on.

Not limited to men, I assure you. People sometimes grow bored with each other through no fault of either party. Give a little more than you're looking for and if that doesn't work, move on.

Many a tear has to fall
But it's all in the game

All in the wonderful game
That we know as love

You had words with him
And your future's looking dim
But these things your heart can rise above

Once in a while he won't call
But it's all in the game

Soon he'll be there by your side
With a small bouquet

And he'll kiss your lips
And caress your fingertips
And your heart will fly away

I've always figured any woman who didn't flee the scene or fend me off with weapons was at least not totally disinterested ...

A few things:

Chumly ~ musicians invented the game!

Timber - What a hoot!

Occom Bill - I vote that you start an Ask Bill thread. You have great insight and I think could be of great help to men and women alike.

Heph ~ girl, everything you are feeling and going through is part of the process. It's all perfectly normal. I applaud you for not holding it in. Getting the issues out and discussing them and looking for solutions is an admirable quality IMO. I think any man (I know you're straight so I can say man) would be honored to have the real you as his companion. It's just a shame that you weren't given the same opportunity to know the real him so you could have passed him by for the real thing.

LOL certain phrases now a days get me laughing.... Oh boy...

Welcome to the school of Hephzibah on the difference between mins and wimmins!

Lesson #1

Mins and wimmins are quite different on how they perceive things. Wimmins are wired more emotionally. Mins are wired more physically. Here's and example. Say the wimmins is having a problem with some co-workers and she comes home to talk to her min about it. The process is usually as follows:

Wimmin: So and so are talking about me at work and it's ticking me off.

Thinking: I hope he'll understand this...

Min: Well just tell them to shut up.

Thinking: I can't believe she's complaining about this. It's so easy to fix.

Wimmin: But you don't understand... they hurt my feelings. They said that I said things I never said and got another person mad at me...

Thinking: How can HE not understand this?

Min: I do understand. You just need to blow them off and go on. No big deal.

Thinking: Man... why is SHE being so sensitive?

Wimmin: You've got to be kidding! How can you be so insensitive??

Thinking: What a friggin jerk!

Min: I'm not being insensitive... I'm telling you how to fix it.

Thinking: Oh boy... I hope it's not too cold in the dog house tonight.

Wimmin: I DON'T WANT YOU TO TELL ME HOW TO FIX IT! I want you to care about how I feel!

Thinking: Who does HE think HE is?

Min: Honey... calm down... I do care how you feel. The best way to get over the problem is to fix it.

Thinking: What am I doing wrong here?

Wimmin: NO YOU DON'T!

Thinking: Man... what an insensitive creep!

Min: YES I DO!

Thinking: What the hell! How can she not see I care!? I'm trying to help her fix the friggin problem!

And so on...

Wimmins, in general, when they have a problem merely need a listening ear. That is what will give them the freedom to look within themselves and figure out a solution that will work for them. Not saying suggestions can't be offered, by any means, but really what they need when they have a problem is to feel supported emotionally. To feel like their feelings are important even if they aren't valid, or are a little excessive at the time.

Mins in general on the other hand don't look at things from an emotional perspective. They look at it from a "fix it" perspective. Kind of like a math problem. 2+2=4. Can't get much simpler than that can ya? However for wimmins that same math problem looks like this: 2y+1x-6y=4. Mins brains function in the divide and conquer rhelm. Life is a problem to be solved. Each problem that is solved is another notch on the belt. Another sign of success. Which is why in a situation like I stated above the min is left feeling like, "What the heck did I do wrong?" He looks at the problem as something to overcome and move on from, while the wimmins look at the problem as something to be processed and learned from.

It's not a crime actually, it's a miscommunication. Here's the problem though. Well as I see anyway. Because wimmins need to feel supported emotionally when things are happening, if they aren't getting that they begin to feel unsafe within the relationship based on the belief that he doesn't care about how she feels. Mins on the other hand need to feel successful. To get a reaction like the above can be a devastating blow to his feelings of success within the relationship. Both parties are frustrated and if the maturity level is not there as the founding roots of their apple tree (LOL) things begin to go on a downward spiral because they begin to approach things on a more defensive angle because each of them feel their needs are not getting met by the other.

OMG I have way too much time on my hands.... whew...

So to sum it all up. That is basically what happened within my relationship. Miscommunication. I started feeling unsafe within the relationship pretty early on. I, being the overcommunicator that I can be at times, tried to communicate this to him. He did not get it and further invalidated my feelings by telling me how foolish I was being. I invalidated his feelings of success within our relationship by giving up on communication after getting the same reaction from him every time I tried to communicate. Granted there was a lot more to the story than that, but speaking from the emotional side of it, that is what happened.

The thing with wimmins is that once they start feeling unsafe emotionally that effects more that just the conversation part of their relationship. It can flow over into many different area's leaving the min feeling lost and confused. You poor guys. LOL You sure got your hands full trying to figure us wimmins out. I don't know what inspired me to write all this. I suppose it's helped me to see things from a different angle. That's always good. That whole processing and learning thing us wimmins do.

Occum Bill wrote:


LOL Sorry Bill, that wasn't meant as a question for anyone to answer except me. I was just being a bit fasicous at the time. I agree with your theory here. However, I do care. I don't see relationships as something disposable. (Not saying you do) I always said I was only going to get married once. Lofty expectations on my part I guess, that have left me in quite a predicament now. I might be entirely too serious for my own good. Maybe you are right and I just need to relax a little and have some fun. *shrugs*



Yeah, I bet it's not. I'm sure if I took a long look in the mirror I could see a little bit of this within myself. I've given all I have to give at this point, and I'm completely emotionally exhausted. So I put it down, and let it go. The ball is in his court. I would like to not surrender this so quickly. I feel like (now I know this might sound ridiculous) walking away from this is giving up on him. Regardless of all the bologna that's happened he's still a person. I don't like writing people off. That's one of the most difficult things for me at this point. Each day is getting a little better. I'm getting a clearer perspective on things, and I am seeing the importance of moving on. It's just gonna take some time for me to work through all this. That's all.

Heph,

Take a deep breath. Now, scream as loud as you can for as long as you can. Woo hoo! Girl, I'm sure that post just gave you some release. You are doing marvelously. I only wish I had ever looked at even just one break up in my life with the dignity and grace you are exhibiting. My hat's off to you woman!

Hey, maybe you and Occom Bill could start a thread together? I think that would be way cool!