Should the USA Annex Mexico?

There is a good reason: the stratification of society is maximized. This is exactly the sort of society that the Admin is working towards with their fiscal policies: a group of extremely rich landowners and businessmen, and a huge poor population to support them.

Those in power, don't want to change it. Those out of power, don't believe that they can change it.

Cycloptichorn

The distance between rich and poor in this country widens every year, while the middle class grows smaller. Payroll and benefits have not been keeping up with the slow inflation rate estimated by our government to be about three to three-and-a-half percent/year. More Americans are losing their health benefits, a terrible sign for the children of this country.

I can vouch for that, jp. The list actually comes from SSA, which I'm identifying as part of the problem. SSA, IRS, and INS have completely different rules. What if SSA actually gave a resonable time to resolve any discrepencies, and then turned the list over to INS? Oh, you can also verify SS numbers when someone is hired. So what? You can only do verification on employees. You cannot do it before hiring, and once hired, it's as you say. It's illegal to fire them on that basis. Ya'll can quit blaming employers (in most cases) for the problem.

roger, Employers have an out on this kind of issue called "at will" employment. They can terminate employment for any reasons within the first 30 days - and the employee can also quit for any reason. That was the "law" when I worked in management about one lifetime ago.

Thanks roger... it's good to have some backup once in awhile.

And if they all happen to be Hispanic? Just might sound discriminatory. Just to give you a feel for the potential, INS says we may, but are not required, to make photocopies of the identity and work eligilibility documents presented. However, they go on to advise, if we only keep copies of those belonging to Hispanics, that could be discriminatory.

As I recall, that was part of the hiring contract included in the personnel manual.

What was? The "at will" condition, C.I.? If so, and all such terminations turn out to be Hispanic, you would need reasons beyond an invalid SS#, or you would have the same problems, regardless of policy or personnel manual.

roger, You're coming to conclusions with no evidence in fact. I find most Hispanics to be hard working, and have hired many of them.

When my brothers and I were children, we worked out in the farms doing harvesting work during the summer months, and worked with Hispanics all the time. If anything, they are the hard workers. I'm not sure why you would even suggest "all such terminations turn out to be Hispanic."

I think Roger is trying to build a strawman scenario, where most or all of the workers are hispanic. Correct?

and still is a lot of places, ci. been working in "at will" business' for the last 20 years or so. that applied to me as a vp/gm as well.

BECAUSE EVERYONE ON THE LIST FROM SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION IS HISPANIC. Wasn't that clear? Did I say, or in any way imply they weren't hard workers? Just what point are you trying to make?

Remember, c.i. is former mangement...

Can you explain that strawman comment, cjhsa? Possibly one of us does not understand the term.

It can be used in various ways. I meant nothing derogatory, only that you were building an argument, i.e. strawman.

roger, That the complete list from any government department are all Hispanic has no bearing on how companies hire and fire legally. Employers are not the police for our government; it wasn't when I worked for a living.

Oh. I have always taken it to mean someone is attacking an idea that isn't, but sounds, like the idea actually presented. Strawmen are easier to knock down that real men. Can't say I've never done it, but very seldom on purpose.

Maybe I should clarify. I'm against illegal immigration. I prefer not to break up families or send good, productive workers back where they came from. I have a strong preference for keeping my employer out of trouble, and I would very much like to see the 14th amendment be amended. McCain-Kennedy sounds like the best way out of a horrible situation, and I hope you understand how it truely hurts to say anything positive about Ted Kennedy.

Sorry, board, for shouting, above. We had a pretty good discussion going on here, though.

CI, roger is trying to state that if employers were to continually fire hispanics for being on the list of invalid SS numbers within the 30 period that you originally brought up, they would face the threat lawsuits due to a perceived discrimination for said firings even though they were merely trying to follow government regulations. Since employers can not, as roger pointed out, validate SS numbers until after they are hired this is a lose lose situation for them.

At least that is what I am reading it as.

My remarks, JP, about the history of the Mexican War, and what was basically the theft of what is now the American southwest refers, once again, to CJ's rant. He is focused on California, as several recent posts show.

I understand your remarks about the jobs you did and were willing to do in high school. When i lived in the Columbus, Ohio area, high school kids wouldn't work at McDonald's (at least in sufficient numbers) despite what i would have considered high wages for that kind of work. The crews at fast food places in that area are now almost exclusively native speakers of Spanish, although they obviously need to learn a modicum of English to work there. CJ claims only "Mexicans" mow lawns--that was not the case in the Columbus, Ohio area, where it is rare to see brown faces on the landscaping crews, and where high school and college kids take those jobs (they are, apparently, well-paid, but i never worked them, so i can't say for sure; the predominance of white boys, however, suggests that that is the case). It is entirely possible that the argument you discount applies in other areas than Milwaukee.

I worked on many construction sites in the Columbus area. People who appeared to be of Hispanic descent were not noticably prominent. By and large, construction crews were blacks and whites such as one sees in employment any where in the country in which a basic assumption that citizens are doing the work is reasonable. I frankly consider many of CJ's contentions about the jobs issue to be exaggerated.

I also continue to consider it an ironic historic justice that many people in the southwest complain about illegal immigrants, given that we stole that territory from Mexico.