Should the USA Annex Mexico?

The people who have immigrated legally should be the most pissed off. Talk about discrimination.

Funny thing... they are not.

Many of them are part of the protests and are the loudest in decrying the anti-"illegal" immigrant movement as racist.

Just wait to you see what happens with the Latino vote. Of course it is not just Latinos, the Irish immigrant community is quite vocal about this as well.

Damn Paddies . . . i never trusted 'em . . . Hell, they're white and they can pass ! ! !

I think any amnesty plan is a bad idea no matter who the sitting preident is. If Regan was still president I would certainly be voicing my opinion against such a plan. However, being 10 years old in 1986 and not particularly politically active at that age, you would be correct in the assumption that I was not "shouting my opposition from the rooftops" at that time. You really got me there, Set.

I wasn't attempting to "get you," JP, just establishing whether or not there were a political bias involved. Both you and CJ have a tendancy to make swipes at "liberals" (those who truly know me would have a great laugh at that one) in this thread. It appeared that you were attempting to suggest that only the evil liberal would propose such a bad, bad measure.

Which A2K'er is this?

No where in this thread have I even mentioned the word "liberal." So I'm not sure how you can make the assertions that I "make swipes at liberals" or have suggested that "only the evil liberal would propose such a bad measure." Both statements are categorically wrong and, I think, are beginning to show your own political bias.

re the guest worker issue, I have some problems with it, I spent many years in the 60's around the Bracero Program of guest workers trying to get decent housing/medical care/education. It was a never ending battle. Flush toilets for migrant workers was "communist" thinking.

I do beg your pardon, JP. However, you might understand how a remark such as this:



--might be misconstrued.

I suppose. I was specifically responding to those that have posted on this thread that have tried to debase me or my arguements by callling my opposition to illegal immigrants as inhumane or lacking decency. I think they are not looking at the situation objectively and will not let them pull the morality card without calling them on it.... whatever their political leaning is.

That's fine, as i had said, i was just attempting to determine upon what basis you forward your thoughts.

But you are looking at the situation objectively .... by what standards do you know this and that the others don't?

According to our laws, anybody born in the US is an American citizen. Babies do not choose where they are born; very simply put.

I am trying to look at the grey areas. I undertand that there are decent people who have come here illegally that would make fine decent citizens. I am willing to discuss options for those people to be able to stay and become legal citizens. However, I don't think they should get a free pass.

Step one would be tightening the border in order to try to cut the problem off now instead of continuing to let the problem grow. Step two would be finding the illegal immigrants already here and deciding what to do with them. I think a felony conviction of a violent manner should automatically disallow a person to be able to stay here and should be deported. Those that have a job and show a desire to become a productive citizen and are working towards it, I would be willing to make concessions for and allow them to stay.

As I already stated I don't think they should get off scott free. Whether McCains fee is enough of a punishment I am not sure of as yet but am thinking that it may not be enough of a deterrent to future illegal immigrants. The goal should be to make the legal channels the more desirable option. One thing I would be willling to consider is that those already here could be grandfathered in. If they are able to prove they were here before a certain date and come forward on their own accord then I might consider the McCain fee a sufficient price to pay. Those that can not prove their residence would be subject to stricter laws.

Again, I think that it would need to be on a case by case basis, even for those grandfathered in. Not all immigrants that have come here are the hard working honest people that eb likes to use as the poster child for the immigration movement. These people need to be weeded out and dealt with accordingly.

To recap:
1.) tighten borders to help stop or at least slow the influx
2.) Make it more desirable to come here legally rather than illegally.
3.) Decide on a bill that allows those that come forward of their own accord and show a williness to contribute to society in a positive manner and work toward legal citizenship to stay (but with some sort of fee/punishment) while sorting out those that have criminal records or are unwilling to contribute to society.

So you tell me Walter, is this a more objective look on the situation than allowing a blanket amnesty program that does nothing to stem the flow of illegals while keeping our legal immigration a nearly impossible and undesirable channel to go through?

You know... I was thinking about this, Set, and the conclusion I have come up with was if we were to all just put aside our political leaning for a moment we could come up with a reasonable solution to this. Each side is so worried about losing the hispanic vote they can't see the solution that is right in front of their face.

A reasonable solution (like the one I outlined :wink: ) that got support of both parties would solve this. There would be no mass exodus of votes from one side or the other (what are they going to do... not vote for anyone?) and at the same time we could begin to get a handle on the situation.

Of course both parties are more worried about getting re-elected then actually accomplishing anything of substance so this will never happen.

Well, although I have strong feelings against anything "tightening" borders - perhaps understandable when you'd lived nearly all your live in a nation divided by walls and electric barbed fences - I suppose, your ideas are very worthy to be discussed.

They do nothing, however, re the present situation.

What part of my outline didn't you understand? The part where I said tighten the borders to help keep the problem from growing, figure out a reasonable bill to deal with those already here or making legal immigration a more reasonable option than illegal?

I think that begins to deal with the present situation quite well.

JP, It sounds like you are ready to accept something close to the bill from the Senate Judiciary Commitee.

There is nothing in your latest bullet points that I would oppose, in fact they sound very similar to my bullet points.

I the final bill comes out something close to that, I think you and I can both be happy with the outcome.

No, no - I understood it quite well.

As long as there is not a blanket policy for those already here and future illegal immigration is dealt with in a a stricter manner, you are right, I think we can both be happy.