Should the USA Annex Mexico?

Stupid and Shameful JP.

Considering that the cars were given to these drivers because the "legitimate" drivers didn't want to drive them...

Don't you think legislation that will break up families is a bit harsh?

I find comparing immigrants (illegal or not) to rapists to be more than a bit offensive.

What, my facetious article or this ridiculous statement:





Harsh??? I suppose so and would be willing to discuss options. On the other hand, I don't think that getting married and having kids should absolve you of your crimes.

I have to weigh in at least once on all of these inhuman anti threads, to state that nobody has the right to stop them. Screw the stupid laws that try to bar them.

JP,

Their "crimes" involve either overstaying a visa, or crossing a border. This is hardly comparable to rape.

That they have commited this heinous crime doesn't change the fact that they are human beings.

How about a little understanding ?

Try to put yourself in their shoes. Are you saying that there is never a situation that you would break a law? As I have been pointing out, there is a chance that you are a citizen now because your ancestors were willing to break immigration law.

I understand your point about "illegal" A law has been broken. I hope you understand that the law is broken because of political pressures to keep immigration to impossibly low levels, and that Americans (the alleged victims of this crime) are both complicit, and benefit from it.

I am sympathetic to Edgar's point, but I am also a political realist.I will accept a reasonable law that is humane and doesn't treat human beings in a harsh and vindictive manner.

So JP, I put the ball in your court. I offered a solution-- the McCain-Kennedy bill which levies a fine (as a penalty for breaking the law) and calls for greater enforcement both in the workplace and the border. But it also meets the needs of business and, most importantly, treats human beings with dignity and respect (in spite of their terrifically horrible crime of trespassing).

So what solution do you offer?

Are you, like our buddy CJ advocating mass deportations?

This will mean great hardship to people, both citizens and non-citizens. It will take kids who have spent their entire life here and are culturally as American as you or I, and thrust them into a country that is foreign to them. It will break up families separating mothers from their children.

It seems like even a law-abiding citizen like yourself should be able to support the McCain-Kennedy bill-- if you have any compassion for your fellow human beings... Personally, I put people ahead of laws, but this is just my Christian upbringing.

But I have made my position clear and have offered a workable solution.

What is your solution?

No it is not comparable to rape. It is still illegal though. I'm not sure why stating over and over again that they are human beings changes anything. I believe that all crimes are commited by human beings.



I'm sure there are some situations I may break a law. However, if I willingly break a law I wouldn't expect to be pardoned because 1.) I am human nad 2.) the crime I commited isn't rape.

They have a choice to come over legally, like my ancestors from Germany did, or they can come over illegally. If they come here legally they have a right to stay here. If they come over illegally we have a right to enforce our immigration laws no matter what edgar says.



I have already admitted that the current laws are broken. Right now there is no motivation to come here legally when it is easier to do it illegally. I am fine with making it easier to come to this country legally. That way we know who is coming in (at least more than the current level of knowing), they come here legally and get a SS number just like everyone else, and contribute in a worthwhile manner.

Making it harder to come here illegally helps funnel immigrants through the legal channel, gives us the above stated benefits and helps us keep out criminals (the hardened kind) that will not make it through the legal channels.

I don't think there is anything inhumane about that at all.



Like what?



I don't think that the McCain bill does enough to stem the tide of illegal aliens. In fact, I think it sweetens the pot for them by telling them as long as they make it here they are good to go.




I think that just because they are already here shouldn't make them eligible to stay. If you want to offer amnesty (which is what I consider this bill) at the very least do it on a case by case basis instead of a blanket program. Kids born in this country are citezens and have the right to stay. If their dad and or mom gets deported they have the choice to stay here or go with them.



I'm not christian and you really start to lose me when you start playing this whole "you must be a cold-hearted person if you can't treat people with compassion" routine. It gets old and should not be used as a blanket policy. Take it on a case by case basis. Those that don't meet our minimum requirements should be deported.

Most people haven't noticed it yet, but Mexico is planning to annex the US.

JP,

Dealing with things on a "case by case" basis is not a solution--I can't imagine this will possibly be fair (unless each case is decided by the same infallible judge).

My argument is a personal one,

Let me tell you about an illegal family that I know very well.

The husband is a white American citizen whose family has been here for generations. The wife is an undocumented immigrant. She has a daughter from a previous marriage (i.e. not a citizen) who been in the US since infancy. She is as American a kid as you can know-- no one who knows her would guess she is not a citizen. Together they have a year old son.

Lawyers have told them not to try for citizenship since the risk of failure is too great (this is true for many immigrant families since it is much more difficult to be legalized than you would imagine.


Now technically, you would be correct to say that Paulina (I am changing the names for obvious reasons) broke the law. Jackie, her teenaged daughter, also has no legal right to be here.

But think about what would happen if Paulina and Jackie were deported. The US citizen father would have a hell of a decision-- between his country and his family, and they would have to decide what to do with their infant son. Do you separate mother from son, or do you effectively tell the father he can no longer live in his country.

The situation is also affected by the reasons that Paulina came in the first place. It is a personal story that I respect. It is also important that Paulina has paid taxes and is loved and by her clients (she is self-employed).

Funny thing.... people who you and CJ call "illegal" are very nice people who work hard are loved by their neighbors and give to their community. Most people in our social circle know about their status, and are very supportive.

I take it personally when you reduce people I care about to "illegal" and even suggest harsh and vindictive measures that will destroy their lives and hurt our community.

Immigrants aren't the scary nameless threats people on your side make them out to be. They are real people with millions of real stories who are dealing with adversity the same way you and I would.

Yet the goal is to make their lives as miserable as possible. Jackie is an honor-roll student who is now being discouraged from attending college. Neither can get a liscence to drive. They are forced to live in the shadows, And the desire is to make things worse.

You will excuse me if I consider it cold-hearted to even suggest deporting people who have assimilated, live decent lives, have struggled and overcome and are part of our community.

I understand the legalistic argument you are making.

But treating the people here with compassion and decency is far more important than a harsh legalism.

I thought that it was the UN that is planning to annex the US. Or was it the Jewish bakers....

(mmmmm cookies......)

Mighty big rallies against cracking down lately.

Si Amigo...

El pueblo, unido
Jamas sera vencido!

It may have been some rumors that I heard about one year ago. I was told that we have more Mexicans in California and everybody else are in the minority.

ebrown, Your example is very good; I would think the best immigration laws would let families like the one in your example stay in the US if they have not broken any other laws.

I have a problem with illegal aliens getting preference over those people trying to become citizens of this country through the legal process.

Beyond that, I have no qalms about hard working people that do not break other laws and are just working hard to make a living. There must be some compromise between the workers and some method to allow them citizenship through a process that doesn't jump over people trying to become citizens the legal way.

I believe any extreme is bad for everybody.

Thank you CI. I think you understand that I am not singling out this family (although I did choose an especially sympathetic example).

Every person has a story-- it is very easy to judge an abstract "illegal" people. When you get to know a person individually, it changes everything. Of course, when you get to it... each person is an indivudual. That is why this issue is complex. I understand my position is not perfect since it is true that laws are broken, and the issue of fairness to people waiting is a valid point..

You are looking for a compromise position--

The McCain-Kennedy bill and the bill passed by the Senate Judiciary commitee is that compromise position. It does both, tightening enforcement for business and providing resources and controls to secure the border... and it provides a way for people whose only crime is crossing a border to become legal.

Some serious lack of basic human decency here.

Like


Yes - it is plain indecent to want to throw kids who've never done anything wrong themselves, who were born in the US, are fully American, might be in school here, whose friends are all here and who very likely have never even been to Mexico, out into a country where they're foreign -- or face having to be separated from their own mother and father.

And yes, I'm sure that having this pointed out will seem to be "getting old" for jp. People who say or do indecent things usually dont like being told about it much. But there it is.

There are indeed some reasons why the USA never ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child - besides the only other country, Somalia, I mean.

eb,

I don't see the point in discussing this any further. I am willing to discuss options but you will be satisfied with nothing less then amnesty for all and I think this is a dangerous policy. You are arguing with your heart and not your mind.

While the majority of illegal immigrants probably are hard working decent people with a milion different stories you are deluding yourself if you don't think there are bad people coming in with the good. This doesn't even take into consideration the drain in schools, hospitals and other social service programs.

So I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Get off your high horse nimh.






This is a silly ridiculous argument. You people and your fantasy view of utopia are seriously deluded. It sounds great to say "everyone should be treated with compassion" and I'm sure it helps you all fall asleep at night. To bad we live in the real world and sometimes bad things happen.

You have a choice to come here legally or illegally. If you choose illegally you may have to face the consequences of getting caught. I am even willing to work with these people but a blanket policy of amnesty is stupid, ignorant and dangerous. So if you get caught... to bad, so sad.

This silly argument about thrusting poor innocent kids in an unfamiliar world is equally ridiculous. Their parents obviously lived in an unfamiliar world when they left behind their country and came here illegally... I don't see why the kids would have anymore difficult a time going the reverse direction. Parents move and kids go with them all the time. Kids are taken from their schools and moved cities, counties, states or countries away every single day and as far as I know they all survive quite well.

So again... stop deluding yourself, get off your high horse and try living in reality for once.

Who's Behind the Immigration Rallies?
By Ben Johnson
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 29, 2006
BIG CORPORATIONS AND THE FAR-LEFT HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON: both like to employ cheap illegal immigrants to do their heavy lifting.

The leftist media have tried to portray this weekend's massive protests against House measures to curtail illegal immigration as the uprising of "The Other America": forgotten, humble, hidden Hispanic members of the working poor simply demanding their "rights." As events spanned from California to Detroit, Phoenix to Washington, D.C., the media kept up its anti-enforcement drumbeat. Although some have credited Latino DJs for the 500,000-strong illegal immigrant turnout in Los Angeles alone - and some credit is deserved - the real legwork was done by a more eclectic group of organizations: leftist labor unions, George Soros-funded agitators, Open Borders lobbyists, Roman Catholic clergy, and teachers unions.


Los Angeles


Los Angeles predictably had the largest turnout - and the most disruptive. Half-a-million people crowded the streets demanding the "right" to flaunt this nation's immigration laws, and underage students ran onto a California freeway, risking their lives and shutting down interstate traffic.


Andres Jiminez, director of the University of California's California Policy Research Center, told the media, "It's not only Latinos who are marching in the streets, its unions too: firefighters, farm workers and Hispanic students who had thought of U.S. law as protecting them and are now starting to see it as a threat to their future."


He was right about this much: Latino organizations did not act alone. The media has failed to report that organized labor directed the illegals and minors. The L.A. Times revealed the rally's "security" was handled by a union identified only as "Local 1877." That would be local 1877 of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), the far-Left union founded by New Left radical Andrew Stern, which called for the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Iraq in June 2004 and worked in concert with Ted Kennedy to roll back anti-terrorist Homeland Security measures. According to the L.A. Times, the SEIU's goons kindly helped "herd marchers along the route." That was not the extent of SEIU's help, though. The union also "coordinated the more than 100 buses that dropped off marchers from throughout California, Las Vegas and a few Southwestern cities."


In other words, the massive rally against Homeland Security - since that is what gaining control of America's borders would promote - was staged by a leftist labor union and staffed primarily with illegal immigrants.


SEIU did not work alone in this. It was aided by other radical or left-wing political pressure groups, including:


· Southern California Human Rights Network (SCHRN), whose members are apparently affiliated with the International Socialist Organization. SCHRN drafted a resolution in Orange County declaring, "We believe that no human is illegal and oppose the criminalization, dehumanization, and exploitation of migrants, immigrants and or economic and political refugees, by means of media, legislation, ideology, rhetoric, etc. [This] includes augmenting border patrol units, commissioning other law enforcement agencies to work in conjunction with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and [includes] such policies as the Central American Free Trade Agreement, the North American Free Trade Agreement, and other policies that exploit the indigenous, peasantry, and environments of countries abroad." In other words, capitalism and any form of immigration laws are exploitative.

· Pomona Day Labor Center, which helps employers hire "day laborers." One must presume this organization knows its employees are illegals.

· Central American Resource Center, which advocates for illegals and lobbies for the government to make a "?'presumption' of hardship" for and grant "permanent residency" to Central American illegals.

· Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles (CHIRLA), founded in 1986 to "get as many people as possible through the amnesty program established" by Ronald Reagan.


The cause is being helped in another way by the Los Angeles Unified School District - where more than 25,000 walked out of classes: through taxpayer-subsidized lobbying courses. According to the district, students "would remain in their home rooms through the day for discussions on the immigration issue, how to influence lawmakers and the consequences of walkouts, said Rowena Lagrosa, executive officer for educational service." (Emphasis added.)


Michelle Malkin obtained a copy of a letter Lagrosa wrote Monday to the students of the school district stating LAUSD would chauffer students to high school after they protested on the freeway. The letter states after the rally, the district "will provide buses to return students to schools when appropriate." Moreover, "we will do everything we can to ensure that those students who do leave the campus are supervised as they leave the campus."


Naturally, the leftist groups, illegals, and teachers unions could count on the media to cover for them. Mickey Kaus pointed out in Slate that the L.A. Times wrapped the protestors in the American flag, erasing all references to the Mexican standard, although the Mexican flag was hoisted at least as often in the crowd as Old Glory.


Gone from the media coverage, too, was mention that these protests had all the hallmarks of leftist riots of bygone days. Although depicted as nonviolent and mainstream, FrontPage Magazine columnist Tammy Bruce noted Hispanic protestors burned American flags at the L.A. rallies. Michelle Malkin has preserved some of the protestors' other extremist messages. L.A. protestors ran onto freeways and threw rocks and bottles. LAPD Chief William Bratton - who put his men on tactical alert - said the protestors diverted police resources from fighting crime in the City of Angels. Fights broke out at protests in Watsonville, CA, and police arrested 21 minors and three adults for riotous behavior, including assaulting a police officer, in Escondido, CA.


D.C.: "Clergy" Against the Law


On Monday, the "mainstream media" reported some 300 clergy met near the Capitol for a prayer service to support illegal immigrants. The rally flyer claims these concerns sacerdotal ministers objected to legislation that would "Deny basic civil rights to immigrants." No outlet reported this meeting was organized by the far-Left Center for Community Change, a member of the United for Peace and Justice coalition, headed by atheist and Marxist Leslie Cagan. On the CCC Board of Directors are:


Former Rep. Ron Dellums, D-CA, the ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee 1993-7. A letter written by a Dellums staffer to Grenada's Marxist dictator discovered by U.S. troops as they liberated the island stated besides that toppled Marxist, "The only other person that I know of that [Dellums] expresses such admiration for is Fidel [Castro]";
Cecelia Munoz, VP of the National Council of La Raza;
Sara K. Gould of the Ms. Foundation for Women;
Peter Edelman, a professor at Georgetown Law School, former Clinton administration official, and board president of the New Israel Fund. Today, he is perhaps best known as the husband of Hillary Clinton mentor Marian Wright Edelman. ; and
Sandra L. Ferniza, Arizona State University's director of the Office of Public Affairs.
CCC is generously funded by the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the Ford Foundation, the William Randolph Hearst Foundation, the George Soros-funded Open Society Institute, the Rockefeller Foundation, and the Tides Foundation.


Other event sponsors include:


Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN). A large, sometimes violent leftist organization with a history of invading welfare offices and intimidating left-wing groups it perceives as "rivals." In 2003, the group supported a resolution condemning the U.S. liberation of Iraq. ACORN's would-be platform calls for the establishment of socialism in the United States. It founded the socialist Working Families Party in 1998 and endorsed Hillary Clinton's senate campaign two years later.
American Friends Service Committee (AFSC). Although it has long presented itself as a benign Quaker organization, the AFSC has a multi-decade history of supporting unilateral disarmament and aiding Communist regimes, even eulogizing the head of a Tanzanian Communist party 13 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall. AFSC signed a document days after 9/11, saying the terrorist attacks should be treated as a police matter. It has for decades promoted the "rights" of illegal workers.
League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC). Steve Brown and Chris Coon reported, "José Velez, the head of LULAC 1990-1994 used his "special status with the INS" to submit false papers for over 6,000 illegals seeking amnesty." LULAC is today associated with race-based Affirmative Action programs and often allied with Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition.
Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition. As I noted in my book, 57 Varieties of Radical Causes, Teresa Heinz Kerry awarded a Heinz Family Foundation grant to MIRA. In June 2002, MIRA instructed its members, "Please do NOT aid people in applying with INS unless you are familiar with their immigration history and are certain they would not be at risk of deportation by doing so." (Emphasis theirs.) Immediately after 9/11 a MIRA press release asked people to "Refer local Arab, Muslim, and affected groups to MIRA." They also advocate for illegals to receive in-state college tuition rates.
National Council of La Raza, a race-based organization that signed the "Statement of Solidarity with Migrants," calling on the government to recognize the contributions of illegal immigrants to the labor market. It calls reduced welfare payments (to illegals), ""a disgrace to American values" and has firmly opposed numerous Homeland Security measures; and
The Gamaliel Foundation, a leftist organization inspired by Saul Alinsky. In addition to lobbying for illegal aliens, this member of the "Religious Left" hosted a campaign event in 2003 featuring Sen, Russ Feingold, D-WI, and then-presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.
The event was another attempt for the Left to wrap its message in clerical garb, this time executed successfully.


Phoenix


Also on Monday, several hundred underage students in Phoenix staged a walkout that culminated with protests at the state Capitol. Underreported was the role played in the rallies by MEChA, a radical Hispanic organization demanding the U.S. government give the Southwestern portion of the United States "back" to Mexican-Americans for the establishment of a new state called Aztlan. MEChA promotes its agenda alongside the National Council of La Raza, Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF), and the American Friends Service Committee.


A sense of MEChA-like entitlement pervaded the entire rally, as an illegal alien told the media:


I'm not a criminal. I'm a good person and I deserve a quality education. That's why I'm here. To show that I'm willing to work toward that goal and that I've earned that right.


She did not elaborate on how she "earned" the "right" to illegally cross the border and access taxpayer-subsidized services restricted to U.S. citizens.


Georgia


Last Friday, tens of thousand of Georgians, including not a few illegals, staged a "sick-in" to protest a bill that passed the state house the day before. CNN reported, "That bill, which has yet to gain Senate approval, would deny state services to adults living in the U.S. illegally and impose a five percent surcharge on wire transfers from illegal immigrants." Not only do immigrants have the "right" to live in Georgia illegally and collect government services, they also have the "right" to use Western Union without paying an extra five cents on the dollar. That's some willingness to contribute to one's home country. These are supposedly the minority members willing to work tirelessly to help their host country at jobs no one wants.


FrontPage Magazine columnist Allan Wall - whose National Guard brigade recently returned from serving our country in Iraq - has pointed out the Georgia protest's organizer, Teodoro Maus, acted as Mexico's consul general in Atlanta for 12 years. During that time, this Mexican government official protested Georgia's declaration of English as the state's official language, opposed a talk show host who supported border enforcement, and petitioned the Peach State to issue drivers licenses to illegals. Maus' involvement raises the question whether Friday's unofficial labor strike had the sanction of the Mexican government.


Dallas-Ft. Worth


Yesterday, area school districts estimated 4,000 students walked out in Dallas-Ft. Worth alone, staging a violent and disruptive rally to sanctify their illicit status.


Media accounts specify: "At Kiest Park, about 1,500 students from Dallas and Grand Prairie schools demonstrated. Dallas police outfitted in riot gear moved in on the crowd after some of the students started throwing rocks and bottles at a woman who staged a one-person counterprotest." (Emphasis ours.)


Protestor Francisco Rojas, speaking in Spanish, told The Dallas Morning News, "It's like an animal that's waking from many years of sleep. We are very strong, and right now is our opportunity."


These minor students then processed into a city council meeting, waving Mexican and El Salvadoran flags. To her credit, Councilwoman Elba Garcia courageously commandeered a police PA system to tell the truants to go back to school (where Dallas school officials said this week's walkouts will be an unexcused absence).The warning came too late for one girl, whose hand was severed as a result of an accident that took place at the walkout.


Undeterred by the violence and harm done to their children's education, leaders in the Open Borders Lobby set out plotting their next move. "At a dinner meeting of the Latino group LULAC, leaders announced a major rally on April 9. ?'We are going to be having, hopefully it will be the largest civil rights demonstration in the history of Dallas, Texas - 100,000-plus,' said LULAC representative Domingo Garcia."


No word on how many lone women will be battered the next time Mexican citizens exercise American First Amendment rights.


The Impact


These massive gatherings of illegals, who denounced their government unmolested by police or immigration officials, had an immediate impact - on legislation and on border security.


Reporter Sara Carter of the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin says since these protests, border patrol agents have reported an explosion in illegal crossings from Mexicans (and others) keenly observing the Senate debate and emboldened by same. Some were under the impression amnesty had already been granted and hoped to be the first to take part in the second California Gold Rush. [1]


The rallies had a political impact, too. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-CO, stated on Monday:


The immigration rallies over this weekend and today show how disordered our immigration system has become. For years, the government has turned a blind eye to illegal aliens who break into this country. It isn't any wonder that illegal aliens now act as if they are entitled to the rights and privileges of citizenship.


As a sign of their political impact, Republicans immediately began discussing the potential threat their political careers face from an Hispanic backlash, should they have the temerity to pretend the United States is a sovereign nation with definable political boundaries.


Leftists and illegals began their massive protest - because they saw U.S. law "as a threat to their future" - the same day the Senate Judiciary Committee passed a bill that would allow illegals to attain American citizenship without facing deportation by a 12-6 vote. John McCain joined forces with Ted Kennedy to promote this amnesty measure. "It is not amnesty," said Ted Kennedy, who has a 41-year history of fibbing about immigration bills.


The Judiciary Committee yesterday approved Dick Durbin's amendment granting amnesty to individuals and non-profits that provide non-emergency aid to illegal immigrants. The committee had previously approved Durbin's amendment to drop illegal immigration to a misdemeanor offense.


These measures are at odds with the will of the American people. According to the Associated Press, 59 percent of Americans oppose laws allowing illegal immigrants to apply for guest worker status, and 62 percent oppose easing the path to U.S. citizenship for those who are here illegally.


Americans know illegal immigrants account for nearly one-third of all inmates in federal prisons and add millions of dollars to their tax load every year. Even Mother Jones magazine exposed the health dangers posed to border towns throughout America, as a result of uninsured illegals bankrupting local hospitals - six years ago.


Americans cannot comprehend why Congress feels a need to add a guest worker program to mollify these disruptive, violent, lawbreaking protestors, who are occasionally political radicals and overwhelmingly individuals who are in violation of U.S. immigration law. What makes Congressmen think those whose first action in this country was to break the law will suddenly obey their newest futile measure?


These illegals claimed they marched to demand their "rights." Those would amount to the right to a speedy trial, followed by rapid deportation. Illegal aliens have no additional rights under our Constitutional system, nor should they be given any. A more inspired leadership, with a requisite number of border patrol agents and paddy wagons, would have made these massive rallies an instructive object lesson in the enforcement of immigration law. Instead, political cowardice has transformed them into international exhibits of American impotence and paralysis.

Yeah CJ.

I saw that too. It made me chuckle and gave me a warm nostalgic feeling.

They said almost the exact same thing about the African-Americans in the civil rights marches-- some 40 years ago.

Of course these things are organized.

The fact we are organizing immigrants both legal and illegal with labor, and families and business and American who care is important for us to accomplish the decent tratment of all.

As the slogan goes: "United we Stand".

I see. So then, you thought Reagan's amnesty plan was a bad idea. You shouted your opposition from the rooftops then, we can assume? Were you a vocal and strident opponent of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986?